Using Technology to Deepen Democracy, Using Democracy to Ensure Technology Benefits Us All

Monday, June 04, 2012

I Don't Think That Phrase "Straw Man" Means What You Think It Does

Techno-Preacher-Man Giulio Prisco has responded to my "Unbearable Stasis" piece arguing that it is the latest of a string of pieces constructing and then torching "straw men" versions of transhumanism. Intriguingly, Prisco begins on a somewhat despairing note, indicating that many of the science fiction authors whose works have inspired and shaped his techno-transcendental vision seem not to want to have a whole lot to do with his curious faith-based pseudo-scientific fandom-turned-Robot Cult:
An essay by Dale Carrico on The Unbearable Stasis of ‘Accelerating Change’ has been praised by two of my favorite science fiction writers, Bruce Sterling and Charlie Stross. This does not change my opinion of Carrico’s “critique of Transhumanism” (more correctly, his critique of his own fictional straw-man portrait of transhumanists), which I find more and more static, tired, and boring. Also Greg Egan, another of my favorite science fiction writers, does not seem to have a very high opinion of transhumanists. In Zendegi, he introduces Nate Caplan, an extropian entrepreneur, health freak, Ayn Rand ultra-libertarian, borderline sociopath, cryonics and mind uploading enthusiast, and caricatural transhumanist cliché. When he first meets neuroscientist Nasim (one of the two main characters), Caplan introduces himself by saying: “My IQ is one hundred and sixty. I’m in perfect physical and mental health. And I can pay you half a million dollars right now.” Then he adds: “I have no lipid deficiencies that would lead to neurohistological abnormalities” and informs Nasim that he runs “Overpowering Falsehood dot com, [sounds familiar?], the number one site for rational thinking about the future.”
"Sounds familiar?" Why, yes… yes, it does. Although Prisco goes on to say "Nate Caplan is a fictional caricature: he doesn’t exist," the point is, of course, that he seems familiar because everybody who devotes any sustained attention to the works of Robot Cultists like the transhumanoids, the singularitarians, the techno-immortalists, the nano-cornucopiasts, the digital-utopians, the greenwashing "geo-engineers" has had their fill, sometimes to a flabbergasting extent, of precisely these kinds of facile libertopianisms, suave eugenicisms, rampaging narcissisms, borderline sociopathies, reductionisms, techno-triumphalisms, gizmo-fetishisms, science fiction treated as science practice or science policy monomanias in their company. The reason the caricature rings true is because there is truth in it, the reason the cliche exists is because it has a foundation in reality, the reason this "sounds familiar" is because it is.

Of course, any subculture is going to have its oddball personalities, any cause is going to attract energetic but harmlessly weird adherents. I'm a lefty queer geek teaching philosophy at a San Francisco art school, I am hardly what you would call a normal person, and most of the people I like best are plenty strange. Although a lot of my critique of mainstream and superlative futurology has played out in the give and take of debates with flesh and blood people saying foolish or ignorant things to me, or in the form of readings of ridiculous arguments with dangerous implications that were published in the expectation that they would get public scrutiny, the fact is that my primary focus has always been on futurological discourse first of all, and its sociocultural formations (membership organizations, networks, campaigns, money-trails) only secondarily. My writing is satirical, it tends to zero in on the ridiculous and to ridicule it, and it is also playful at the level of the language itself, which I just happen to enjoy. But it is the furthest imaginable thing from frivolous or insubstantial or merely insulting. It is very interesting that Prisco claims that I am torching a straw man I denominate "transhumanism," as if there were some more "reasonable transhumanism" preoccupied with how nanobots are going to transform humans into comic book superheroes and make them rich beyond the dreams of avarice before their information-selves are "uploaded" into virtual heaven under the supervision of a history-ending friendly superintelligent Robot God.

Prisco writes:
Carrico is a Grand Master of straw man arguments, and a consummate liar who always distorts what his “targets” really say. A typical discussion with him goes like this:
DC: Everyone knows that roses are pink, but Robot Cultist X says that roses are green.
X: I am sorry, but I never said that roses are green.
DC: Yes you did, you moron, you and your Robot Cultist friends.
X: I never said that roses are green and I challenge you to find an actual quote, even just one. I have said that most roses are pink or red, but many roses are white or yellow, and some roses have other colors.
DC: Fuck you, asshole. Perhaps you never said that roses are green, but you Robot Cultists want to genetically engineer green and blue roses, and this goes against the finitude and interconnectedness of Nature, and your discourse reinforces the industrial-military-libertropian complex, and… (pages and pages of logorrhea).
Of course, after a few exchanges like this, X stops paying attention and moves on. Please see this article for answers to Dale’s questions to his readers about his arguments and style.
What is delightful about this passage is that it is entirely invented by Prisco and hence at best seems to be an example of precisely the sort of misbehavior he is presumably castigating me for. He doesn't say that this is literally something I have ever said but that it is merely "typical" of me. Now, to be honest, I don't think that the first exchanges he is assigning to me are even remotely typical of my writing. Needless to say, for one thing, there already are green and blue roses (I worked in a garden center with a florist refrigerator in the back in high school, you know), and actually I have explicitly and repeatedly argued against those who deploy the word "natural" to police conformity to their parochial values. It is true that I often speak of finitude (human error-proneness, vulnerability, mortality) and the need to take it into account and be wary of irrational denialisms about these limits which usually originate in fear and eventuate in harm. And I also do talk a lot about interconnectedness, especially when I am criticizing people who want to take personal credit for collective achievements. And I do think many specific futurological discourses function to reinforce the assumptions, aspirations, and self-serving rationalizations of neoliberal and consumer and extractive-industrial culture. I also think it is hard to pretend, as Prisco seems to want to do, that saying these sorts of things is tantamount to calling people "assholes" and "morons" over and over again. It is intriguing that he calls these efforts at sustained discourse and analysis and argument "logorrhea" or "diarrhea of the mouth." Very Serious! By the way, if you follow the link he provides to offer "evidence" of my misbehavior you will be taken, I kid you not, to an article not of mine but of his, which includes, word for word this very same passage I have quoted, his fantasy of a "typical exchange" with me. Again, Very Serious! Very Serious, indeed. Honestly, is it any wonder that I ridicule this sort of thing?

Prisco declares: "Carrico’s 'arguments' boil down to 'You are a filthy Robot Cultist, so you are not qualified to have opinions on serious political issues.'" Just let me say that I do not believe this, I do not believe I have ever argued this. It's hard to know what to say in the face of this kind of breathtaking statement. My first impulse is to make a joke and laugh it off, but clearly Prisco doesn't take too kindly to levity. And so, I suppose I will simply challenge anybody to find a version of this claim in any of my writings anywhere.

In what I would take to be a fairly characteristic formulation, I have indeed said that transhumanist and other superlative futurological discourses tend
One: To be hyperbolically unrealistic and sensationalist in ways that derange urgently necessary public deliberation about technoscience issues,

Two: To exacerbate irrational fears and fantasies about agency typically activated in any case by discussions of technology, especially dreams of omnipotence and nightmares of impotence,

Three: To lend themselves to parochial moralizing social forms and identity-based political models that tend to be psychologically harmful and dangerously anti-democratizing,

Four: To facilitate elitist, alarmist, escapist, reductionist attitudes and rhetoric especially well suited to incumbent interests and anti-democratic politics, whatever the professed politics of those who advocate them, and

Five: To represent in their Superlative extremity a clarifying and symptomatic expression of the basic irrationality and authoritarianism of prevailing discourses of "Global Development" and "Technoscientific Progress" in an era of neoliberal and neoconservative politics.
This passage, by the way, is from five years ago and was prompted by a piece by none other than Giulio Prisco. Few transhumanists would affirm these as their conscious or official doctrine, of course. The point is to elaborate consequences and entailments of their discourse that most do not immediately grasp, the better to help people who are perplexed by futurology to understand it and its appeal and its impact, to help the credulous or unwary who might otherwise embrace the discourse to think twice about doing so, and even, possibly, activate some wholesome skepticism within futurological sub(cult)ures to undermine what is dangerous in what they are doing and extricate the occasional True Believer from thrall. Robot Cultists will disagree with my observations and conclusions about their beliefs but that actually doesn't mean I am simply barking out ad hominem attacks willy-nilly much though they would like to pretend otherwise. Transhumanists are making arguments in public, inviting scrutiny, and they cannot declare those who disagree with them or who think they are dangerous and say why or even who think them ridiculous and ridicule them for it are engaging in hate crimes against an ethnic minority in need of protection because of its marginality. Most of the futurists I am arguing with are educated, privileged, and secure, and most are aware at some level that their views are marginal in their extremity and surely expect that they will invite disagreements (though many may not believe sustained intelligent disagreement with them is possible).

There is much more that I think Prisco's response gets terribly wrong, but I don't think nit-picking it will be very interesting to anybody. I am sure I could be induced to indulge in still closer readings in the Moot. As for Giulio Prisco himself, I will leave it to the readers of my work and of his to decide for themselves who is making "straw man" arguments here, who is offering up substantive arguments here, who is being insulting here, and just who, if anybody, is being the asshole. What I will leave you with is the reminder that Giulio Prisco is not some random loon, but a longstanding eminence in transhumanoid and techno-immortalist sub(cult)ures, widely published and seriously discussed by figures taken seriously (to the extent that any of them are) in more mainstream pop-tech and futurological precincts, a founder and officer of many transhumanoid publications and organizations, to this day. I leave the implications as an exercise for the reader.

25 comments:

jimf said...

> Prisco writes:
>
> > Carrico is a Grand Master of straw man arguments, and a
> > consummate liar who always distorts what his “targets”
> > really say. . .
>
> Prisco declares:
>
> > Carrico’s 'arguments' boil down to 'You are a
> > filthy Robot Cultist. . .'
>
> My first impulse is to make a joke and laugh it off, but
> clearly Prisco doesn't take too kindly to levity. . .
>
> I will leave you with. . . the reminder that Giulio Prisco
> is not some random loon, but a longstanding eminence in
> transhumanoid and techno-immortalist sub(cult)ures, widely
> published and seriously discussed by figures taken seriously
> (to the extent that any of them are). . .

Prisco is either **unwilling**, or even more disturbingly
possibly **unable**, to engage with you on a serious intellectual level.
He is not a stupid man, in other contexts, so either his wounded feelings
are running away with him, or his intelligence is of a sort
that literally cannot be channeled in this direction. (I'm
tempted to speculate "Aspergers" here, but I haven't either
the evidence or any particular desire to press for any kind
of psychological "diagnosis" -- in his case, at least ;-> ).

I'm reminded of a TV documentary from 2006 presented
by Richard Dawkins called "The Root of All Evil?" about the conflict
between religion and science
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Root_of_All_Evil%3F ).

There was a segment in which Dawkins attempted (perhaps
unwisely) to have a civilized conversation with
evangelist Ted Haggard at the latter's New Life Church (this
was shortly before Haggard was caught with his pants down).
The conversation went more-or-less politely (though with Haggard
accusing Dawkins of "arrogance") -- at least as politely
as Matt Lauer's "Today" show interview with Tom Cruise in 2005 ;-> .
But after it was over, as Dawkins and the film crew were leaving
the compound, Haggard drove up in a rage, threatening to
confiscate the camera equipment, and accusing Dawkins of
having called his children "animals".

Now that's a disconnect!

jollyspaniard said...

I'd vote for hurt feelings running away with him in the above mentioned either or.

Barkeron said...

Just shows intelligence and wisdom are one and the same.

Speaking of Dawkins, provided meme theory proves to be not total bunk, just like there are viruses that change the body's functions there could be certain memes/memeplexes that are contagious and cloud ones judgement by introducing biases and whatnot. No matter how smart or rational you think you are, once you're infected your mind's going to be compromised.

Khani said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-KhSTgo3YA ! :)

Giulio Prisco said...

My reply, in the comments section (full text too long to post here)

Dale Carrico said...

You say I misquote you, possibly mischievously, that you only thought one small detail (the name of a website) was actually familiar in your reading of Egan's parody, and not the whole transhumanoid caricature that anybody else would find similarly familiar? M'kay. You quote my statement that I write satirically and then say, yeah, me too? M'kay. You say I deny you are a reliably progressive political ally though you want to be construed as one, despite my belief, for which I provide reasons, that your views have consequences injurious to that politics -- fully granting you may not grasp these or intend them, but finding them just the same -- and you consider this a form of meanspiritedness rather than a principled difference? M'kay. If your best effort is "I know you are then what am I," then I am quite happy to leave the last word to you.

jimf said...

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-KhSTgo3YA

Hm. I have three thoughts about that.

1. If this **isn't** fake (and I think it is), then recording
it without the "performer's" knowledge and putting it on YouTube
is **at least** as bad as what Dharun Ravi did to Tyler Clementi
at Rutgers (and which he just started jail time for).

2. I can actually remember the very last time in my life
I had a meltdown of similar magnitude. It had to do with a
supposedly just-repaired tape recorder failing to record
(the audio of) a first-season _Star Trek_ rerun in the summer of 1967.
I was 14 years old at the time, I'm ashamed to admit. I
was so embarrassed by my own memory of the outburst, the
next day, that I grew up quite a bit as a result, overnight, and have
never lost control of myself that way again. ;->

3. I remember seeing a TV documentary in which two little
boys (brothers -- 6-year-olds, maybe) are so disappointed by their
father's failure to show up on Christmas Eve (either that,
or his failure to bring them a present they'd been promised,
or something similar, I can't remember), that, after an
extended and escalating joint crying jag,
they **both** start throwing up on their beds
(as if mom didn't have enough to deal with already).
I think if that had happened in this video, I'd be
more convinced of its authenticity. ;->

Chad Lott said...

Video is a fake:

http://gawker.com/5588265/kid-admits-fake-world-of-warcraft-freakout-video-was-fake

My largest meltdown occurred after crashing a truck into a ditch in Mississippi after being chased out of Memphis earlier in the evening.

Good times.

Anonymous said...

Regardless of our opinion on Transhumanism, I think we can all agree Giulio Prisco is basically a stoned teenage Eclipse Phase game master.

Athena Andreadis said...

JimF said "[Prisco] is not a stupid man..."

Have you followed his "arguments" in whatever context? For example, his views of women? I agree with Anonymous, except I would shift the emotional/intellectual age to about seven.

Giulio Prisco said...

@Athena re "[my] views of women"

Perhaps you could provide some examples?

Athena Andreadis said...

For a representative glimpse of your emotional and intellectual depth and sophistication, I direct readers to your comments on this article. For a more general overview of the prevailing views about women at IEET, who counts you as one of its directors, they can read Won't Anyone Think of the Sexbots?!

Giulio Prisco said...

@Athena re "I direct readers to your comments on this article"

None of my comments on this article are about "my views of women."

Anonymous said...

To be fair, neither article is about Prisco's view of women.

If you're going to criticize him, you could start with the Turing Church.

jimf said...

Athena Andreadis wrote [to Giulio Prisco]:

> For a representative glimpse of your emotional and intellectual
> depth and sophistication, I direct readers to your comments on this
> article ["The Persistent Neoteny of Science Fiction"]

to which Mr. Prisco replied:

> None of my comments on this article are about "my views
> of women."

The claim was that your comments on this particular article
provide "a representative glimpse of your emotional and intellectual
depth and sophistication".

I think it's fair to say that (yet another) Prisco poop joke in response
to a serious critique of a literary genre that informs so much of >Hist
discourse --

> Re the four Fs - I think we should add another F.
> The urge to deFecate can be as powerful as the other F.
>
> Even more powerful: when you got to go, you got to go,
> like in that scene in the first Jurassic Park, even if
> you can be eaten by a T-Rex.

-- could be fairly characterized as lacking in "emotional and intellectual
depth and sophistication".

I'm reminded of a similarly flippant and dismissive
attitude taken 40 years ago by none other than Arthur C. Clarke almost
40 years ago towards objections occasioned by a passage in one
of his own books, explicitly about women.

It's described in Julie Phillips' James Tiptree biography
This happened in 1975, more than a decade after
Valentina Tereshkova had gone into orbit for the
Russians. And years after _Star
Trek_ had come and gone. And _2001: A Space Odyssey_,
for that matter.

(pp. 330 - 331):

"The science fiction community as a whole was in an
odd position regarding feminism. On one hand, most
of the writers and fans were men. In 1974, women still
made up less than 20 percent of SFWA's membership.
And most of those men, even those who were using SF
to address other social issues, were still not ready
to question gender relationships. The "rocket jocks"
(who had also hated the New Wave) insisted women
couldn't write real, "hard" science fiction and
probably shouldn't even be reading it. Other men
were more open in theory, but had trouble understanding
the problem.

Arthur C. Clarke, for example, had recently sent a
letter to the editor of _Time_ magazine agreeing with
astronaut Mike Collins. Collins had told _Time_ that
women could never be in the space program, since in
zero G a woman's breasts would bounce and keep the men
from concentrating. Clarke proudly claimed he had
already predicted this "problem." In his novel
_Rendezvous with Rama_ he had written, "Some women,
Commander Norton had decided long ago, should not
be allowed aboard ship: weightlessness did things
to their breasts that were too damn distracting."
When Joanna Russ tried privately to explain why this
was insulting, Clarke, responding publicly in the
SFWA newsletter, asked why Commander Norton shouldn't
be attracted to women -- didn't Russ want him to be?
He added that though some of his best friends
were women, the level of discourse of the "women's
libbers" clearly wasn't helping their cause.

The whole exchange appeared in the _SFWA Forum_ in
February and March 1975. It drew a storm of comment
from all directions, most of it expressive of how
new feminism was to most men and how automatically
many reacted by kicking slush. The newsletter's
editor, Ted Cogswell, illustrated an issue with
pictures of naked women -- intended, he said, as a
joke. [SF author] Suzy Charnas informed him that
this kind of "joke" was aggression disguised as
humor. Some of the letters, from men and women,
were open and intelligent, but even the more reasonable
men often reduced the argument to the sexual or
the physical, as if all sexism was about was, as
one man put it, the shape of a person's plumbing."

Dale Carrico said...

Charlatans really do benefit incalculably from the fruit fly memory of the internets. I've been criticizing Prisco (who is utterly foolish) for WELL over a decade on endlessly many different topics, and I cannot say when and about what Andreadis (who is utterly fabulous) began criticizing him, or at any rate his milieu, but it's a while now. I don't know what specifically clumsy formulation on sex-gender she was pointing to, I don't doubt that she could blow an hour searching online to find whatever she vaguely recalled or was referencing -- whereupon Prisco would continue on idiotically and his fans would pick nits in the usual nit-witted fashion. I personally have not focused on sex-gender questions in my own critiques of Prisco (of which I have MANY) -- his views on lgbtq issues for instance have struck me as blandly but also unobjectionably liberal. It seems to me Andreadis's comments were rather general and dismissive: "Have you followed his "arguments" in whatever context? ... I agree with Anonymous, except I would shift the emotional/intellectual age to about seven... For a representative glimpse of your emotional and intellectual depth and sophistication, I direct readers to your comments on this article. For a more general overview of the prevailing views about women at IEET, who counts you as one of its directors, they can read Won't Anyone Think of the Sexbots?!" See? Even removing the one charge on which he's fixated the assessment of Prisco (and the transhumanoids more generally) is utterly damning. And rightly so.

Giulio Prisco said...

@Jim: the claim was in reply to my invitation to provide examples in support of the previous claim.

@Dale: removing that one charge is good enough.

Feel free to call me "utterly foolish", but please, based on what I say, not based on what I don't say.

Dale Carrico said...

As I do, for instance, in the actual post to which all these comments are presumably responses.

Giulio Prisco said...

@Dale: One of the many things that you criticize in the post, is my green roses passage: "He doesn't say that this is literally something I have ever said but that it is merely "typical" of me. Now, to be honest, I don't think that the first exchanges he is assigning to me are even remotely typical of my writing."

Note that the exchange in the comments above (admittedly not only with you, AM stands for Amor Mundites) is identical:

AM: GP is [insult], because [false claim], [insults].
GP: Please provide an example of [false claim].
AM: Here you go, [insults]: [unrelated example].
GP: This example is not related to [false claim]. Please provide a relevant example.
AM: [Insults]. Yes, perhaps [false claim] is not correct, but [more insults]

Dale Carrico said...

Rather than say I "criticize" the passage you mention, I would say I exposed it as a complete invention on your part, as not even remotely typical of my actual arguments (which anybody can read for themselves and judge for themselves here), and as a piss-poor excuse for satire if that's what you were trying for.

I agree with Athena that your online writing -- at any rate in your exchanges with me -- is well-nigh uniformly ridiculous. I haven't personally observed you saying anything egregiously sexist, at least not that I remember (it's not like I expect anything remotely like sophisticated gender perspectives from you guys), and not only haven't I accused you of that personally, I actually vouched for your blandly genial liberality on queer issues. Obviously no good deed goes unpunished with the likes of you.

Athena strikes me as a million miles more intelligent and interesting and right-on with her right-on than you, and I have personally benefited from her writing on sex-gender issues in scientific practice and science fiction. I think she is great and I think you are a clown. This present fluffy kerfuffle you're coughing up certainly doesn't change any of that.

There is, however, no such thing as an "Amor Mundi" movement, this being just a small-readership blog that allows for reader comments -- which may be a difficult thing for you to grasp, inasmuch as you, Giulio Prisco, have personally founded and been among the directors of several literal membership organizations filled with people who defiantly declare themselves to be all sorts of odd "-ists" and some of whom (among them you) insist that their "-isms" are outright religions and techno-mystic orders and even complain that those who criticize claims you offer up for public scrutiny are engaged in hate speech when they have the temerity to find your beliefs at best pseudo-scientific and at worst batshit crazy.

Your "response" to my post remains a non-response based on lies, even if you didn't like something somebody other than me wrote in a comment on my blog. The links are there for everybody to pursue and judge who wants to do so.

Giulio Prisco said...

Re "The links are there for everybody to pursue and judge who wants to do so."

Indeed.

Re great persons and clowns:

If the best that great persons can do is to call "mosquitos" those who dare to politely disagree with them, then I am happy to be a clown. (Ref.: http://amormundi.blogspot.hu/2010/05/robot-cultists-have-won.html)

Re "I actually vouched for your blandly genial liberality on queer issues."

Thanks. I have also personally vouched for you, many times. But we are still hear calling each other asshole, aren't we.

Dale Carrico said...

Exchanges with Giulio Prisco are always a bit soiling.

Giovanni Santostasi said...

Imagine we were in the middle ages. There is no real democracy. There is wide spread poverty, people die young. Disease, wars, ignorance are dominant. You get the picture. Imagine that I'm a visionary and I see how it is possible to go from where we are in the middle ages to where we could be let's say in a modern western country circa 2012. Of course this would be amazing and such a futurist would have an incredible visionary outlook, but not utterly impossible right (and I'm using this as an extreme to make a point). Then I start to write pamphlets about the future and what is the path for mankind. I introduce the concept of democracy, of the scientific method, how we should get rid of the power of kings and church, how we should give free education to the children, women included, that science will help us to produce more food, that people would not work in the field all their lives, that we can defeat disease, bring water to the houses, have machine to transport to places, communicate with people over enormous distance, we could travel to the moon. Continue this list and add anything you are so familiar with and take for granted from your experience. Think how a middle ages man, even a very clever and open minded one, would react to such fantasies about the future. The car-cultish people are ridiculous, extend life to 80 years for the majority of people when most humans die before reaching 30? Give rights to women, what is next allow sodomites to have sex without being harshly punished? Or maybe going to bed every day with a full stomach? Such foolish, elitist thing to say, these airplane-cultist they think they can fly, like witches do. It is ridiculous and full of hubris. I can go for ever and if this seems stupid, it is because it is stupid. No imagination man, it is a medieval sin in particular for a so called artist.

Dale Carrico said...

I will make three brief comments -- forgive the brevity but I have to grade papers for my Berkeley undergraduates this weekend, unfortunately.

First, while I do not deny that visionaries are sometimes splendidly visionary the fact remains that folks who want to justify their marginal views sometimes point to this fact all the while forgetting that many more of the claims that fancied themselves visionary were in fact just as ridiculous as they appeared, but that we tend to focus instead on the success stories or the skeptics who denigrated the few success stories, and this skews the way this sort of story gets told.

Second, I do not think it is right to assign causal force to those who are so visionary that they get things incredibly distant outcomes more or less right. I think progress actually results from people solving the problems that beset them, including solving the problems created by the solutions to the problems that beset them before. I think the shape and substance of outcomes far in our future will be determined by what we do about our present problems and the problems that shape intermediate developmental along the path to these eventual outcomes. If some "futurist" guesses some of this correctly it seems to me much more a matter of luck than a matter of his grasping some deep underlying principle more clearly than others do. I think futurologists battling over competing visions of the world a century away have a vanishingly negligible impact on what the world a century away will be like, while people solving urgent shared problems of the present are creating the legal, normative, infrastructural, and even aspirational landscape on which the next problem solvers will grapple in ways that have incomparably greater impact on that future.

Third, I do want to point out that there is a difference between

[a] those futurological proposals I find too marginal from scientific consensus to take as seriously as transhumanists tend to do -- for example, the idea that robust, reliable, programmable, multi-purpose, room-temperature desktop nanofactories are eventually going to be cheap enough to be practical -- and

[b] those futurological proposals I find too marginal from the current state of the art to be proximate enough to deserve serious attention when there are urgent priorities from in the same domain of concern demanding our attention now -- which is, for example, how I would characterize SENS as compared to access to clean water and to family planning and to available treatments for neglected diseases in the overexploited regions of the world -- and

Dale Carrico said...

[-- to continue]

[c] those futurological proposals which I regard as conceptually incoherent and impossible in principle, whatever timeline is being bandied about -- for example, the idea of "uploading" which at once declares consciousness a material phenomenon (which I agree that it is) while proposing the actual material incarnation of consciousness in an organismic brain is somehow negligible or irrelevant (while I am open to the logic possibility of differently materialized intelligences or quasi-intelligences, it remains the case that human intelligence is materialized in organismic brains and in social settings), usually trying to brush this aside by pretending a metaphor like "migration" or "translation" can stand in for a testable hypothesis (it can't), or pretending to believe a picture of something is the same thing as the something it pictures (it isn't), or accusing those who point these things out of being "vitalists" or "deathists" (we aren't, or at any rate, I'm not).

It is crucial to grasp the difference between those who told the Wright Brothers humans would never travel through the air and those who insisted that schemes to square the circle or distill the immortalizing elixir of life were engaging in fools errands or arrant frauds: anybody who has watched a leaf fall from a tree knows that heavier than air objects can remain afloat for sustained periods but nobody has ever encountered a living but immortal self. Even simply structured asexually reproducing presumably immortal jellyfish -- not remotely complex enough to incarnate what passes for legible selfhood -- regenerate out of their prior incarnations in a process of creative destruction as akin to mortality as to immortality. Life and death appear to be intractably metabolically interdependent (you don't even have to bring the heat death of the universe into it), not to mention the structural limits that seem to bedevil narrative selfhood even under conditions of our present longevity. It's true that one should suspect the scientificity of one who is drawn not only to one but to one after another belief marginal to scientific consensus, but quite apart from this problem, futurologists seem in their pining after transcendence to stumble into conceptual incoherencies they rarely bother to admit of let alone address in any sustained fashion.