> Many science fiction fans are also very literate in science > and have advanced degrees and a long list of peer-reviewed > publications to prove it, and many top scientists and > science policy wonks are also science fiction fans. . . > > Of co[u]rse enjoying science fiction is not the same thing > as doing science or making science policy, but this does not > disqualify persons interested in science fiction from doing science > or making science policy, if they have the inclination, skills > and qualifications. > > . . . > > I find it very strange that a person who teaches at a top college > is unable to understand the simple words “and, also.”
Indeed, many scientists and engineers and computer programmers are SF fans, though it wouldn't surprise me if a smaller proportion of "top" scientists would identify themselves as such (I have absolutely no data one way or the other).
The one person I know well who has any serious scientific training at all (graduate study and some career experience as a physicist; the bulk of his life has been spent copyediting for science and math journals) is **very picky** about his SF -- he's utterly dismissive, for example, of both _Star Trek_ and _Star Wars_, and refuses to dignify "space opera" (anything with faster-than-light travel or interstellar civilizations) with the term "science fiction" -- he calls it fantasy (and he doesn't read **anything at all** with elves, dwarfs, magic swords, or magic rings in it). He likes **some** Greg Egan (_Distress_ but not _Permutation City_) and **some** Vernor Vinge (_Rainbows End_, but not _A Fire Upon the Deep_).
I would guess that the vast majority of SF fans are **not** professional scientists, though again, I have no data.
Nevertheless, **of course** these groups can overlap -- scientists ("top" or otherwise), SF-lovers (however they may define themselves), and fantasy-lovers. However:
What **must not** overlap -- what must remain distinct for the sake of serious scholarship, rationality, or even sanity -- is one's sense of the boundaries of reality and legitimate inference as a professional scientist working in the lab, teaching, writing grant proposals, or acting as a consultant to business or government; as opposed to the **willing suspension of disbelief** deliberately entertained in order to fully enjoy a fictional SF milieu -- taking as a given, for the sake of the story, warp drives, matter transmitters, interstellar colonies, artificial intelligences, superpowers, or any of the usual SF furniture (much of which my picky friend would dismiss as "fantasy" and would **not** be willing or even able to suspend disbelief for -- the "silly" furniture would destroy the possibility of enjoyment for him), together with the "logic" that weaves these elements together into a plot.
If you start trying to sit on that SF furniture as if its upholstery can really bear the weight of human posteriors -- treating the prospects for AI as obvious, for example, because it's been a familiar feature of the SF you've read since you discovered comic books at the age of 5 -- whether through ignorance or wishful thinking, or more darkly because of narcissistic arrogance or even an attempt at cynical manipulation -- in other words, through self deception in all its diverse manifestations (see Robert L. Trivers' _The Folly of Fools: The Logic of Deceit and Self-Deception in Human Life_ http://www.amazon.com/Folly-Fools-Logic-Deceit-Self-Deception/dp/0465027555 ) then you deserve to have your falling away from The Way of Rationality (if I may borrow a phrase ;-/ ) pointed out to you. Even by persons who teach at top colleges, who may also be equipped to point out the legitimate and illegitimate uses of "and, also".
http://transvision2010.wordpress.com/2010/08/24/khannea-suntzu-at-transvision-2010/ --------------------- "Khannea [Suntzu] is not one person, but several associated artists working together. Respective ‘real world’ identities and conventions of these people are no longer relevant — they have discarded their soul to a greater cause – the manifestation and incarnation of something Khannea refers to as ‘Lilith’ as an artillect [sic]." ---------------------
http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/artilect --------------------- artilect (ARTIficial intelLECT) A machine that is more intelligent than a human being. The term was coined by Dr. Hugo de Garis at Utah State University. ---------------------
Hm. I suppose imagining oneself to be the "manifestation and incarnation" (avatar, anyone? Iain Banks' "Culture", anyone?) of an AI named "Lilith" (_Neon Genesis Evangelion_, anyone) is considered among >Hists to be more scientific (and hence, less weird) than claiming to be channelling an entity called Kryon. No blurring of reality and fantasy **here**! No, indeed.
On the other hand, maybe the on-line >Hists are in fact the Indigo Children foretold in "Kryon Book VI, _Partnering With God_. . . [which] spoke of the spiritual evolution of the new children of the 'indigo' color." ( http://www.kryon.com/k_37.html)
http://spiritlibrary.com/spiritual-entities/kryon --------------------- Kryon Kryon is a consciousness that pervades all universes. Kryon is rather like a committee that has the ultimate understanding of what happens on Planet Earth, and of what goes on everywhere else. He [has a far-reaching spiritual penis and] is everything within this solar system. However, not only in this solar system, but also galaxies beyond. ---------------------
. . .[P]eople are making money off these topics writing books and holding conferences and seminars where admission is charged. . . [W]hen I read the list of traits common to indigo children I felt that it described me pretty accurately. . ., and while I'm skeptical of the whole thing, it does seem like more and more of these personality types are being born, why is that? I also want to know more about the topics I listed above, whats true and whats not, whats proven and whats not, I want FACTS as opposed to opinions especially in regards to the 12 strand DNA stuff, I'd also like to know if advancements in quantum physics (like regarding extra dimensions and parallel universes) are related to a supposed coming awareness and 2012, and whether these scientific advancements are coinciding with the 2012 stuff for a reason. ---------------------
Transhumanism is a conspiracy! Centered in Connecticut. (Remember _The Stepford Wives_? That was in Connecticut too!)
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=107801 ------------------------- The almost universal consensus seems to be that Indigo or Star Children are extraterrestial or genetically engineered by aliens or just somehow spiritually superior. . .
I have been communicating with a person who had a child born at Yale. This child is now a teenager. He has had trouble in school with other children and even teachers. The parents and the son feel the behavior of the others is very bizarre. This teenager is very gifted, he is way beyond his years in maturity, intelligence and insight. He senses things which have not happened yet and understands things his parents don't understand. . .
I have been looking into certain issues concerning Yale. They have a globalization Think Tank. . . . Jose Delgado....the inventor of remote control mind control... was a professor there. . .
I thought I would look up more about Yale. I came across the term Transhumanism. I didn't really know what it meant so I looked it up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism
I found that Yale has a professor named Nick Bostrom who is a professor at Yale and is the founder of the Transhumanism movement. . . I have felt for a long time that more goes on at Yale than we know about. . .
Yale was also involved with the Human Genome Project which I would think would entail genetic experimentation?
Could it be that all the talk about Star Children or Indigo Children is to get us to think that they have some sort of special Divine inheritance? Are these children really a product of earthly genetic manipulation? Could all this be related to the transhumanism movement? -------------------------
And see also:
http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2007/09sep/RICR-070920.html ------------------------- Michael Tsarion Return to Red Ice Creations Radio to Discuss the Post Human World, The Future of Mankind, Transhumanism. Topics Discussed: 2012, The End of the World, New Technology, Science, Drugs, SSRI's and the "Removing" of Suffering, The Technotopia, The New Man, Spiritual Aspect of Man, The Cyborgs, Man-Machine Symbiosis, The Technological Singularity, Biotech, Genomics, The Vulcans, Craig J Venter, The Human Genome Project, Aubrey de Grey, Longevity, Artificial Intelligence, The Templar's, Eternal Life and the Quest for the "Holy Grail", Methusala, Symbolism, The Archon's and much, much more. ------------------------- http://www.in5d.com/michael-tsarion-nephilim-atlantis-and-transhumanism.html Michael Tsarion: Nephilim, Atlantis & Transhumanism
**Those** Vulcans?
(Yeah, some people have overly, uh, permeable mental boundaries.)
Man, if you really want to see odd & weird, check out Khannea's website.
Huge props for letting that freak flag fly so proudly. An entire Amazon wish list of ninja weapons?? Claiming to be 280 years old (at least poetically)?? I'm a fan for life.
I will recommend giving up on the dream of owning that lame Tron motorcycle. A BMW GS1200 is a much better choice if you think you might have to fight zombies.
> Man, if you really want to see odd & weird, > check out Khannea's website. > > Huge props for letting that freak flag fly so proudly.
You know, freak flags are fine. Entertainment is fine. Exhibitionism is fine ("for people who like that sort of thing, that's the sort of thing they like").
What isn't fine, or at least what does **not** deserve to be received in solemn and reverential silence, but rather deserves to be laughed at, roundly mocked, and wittily snarked at (as well as drily debunked), is freakery that:
1) Pretends to have a clearer view "the Future" than any other carnival gypsy's crystal ball
2) Pretends to know more about the implications of "science" than practicing scientists
3) Pretends that donating money (or encouraging the general public to donate money) to a con artist, self-promoter, or deluded guru who claims to be laboring to make science-fiction cliches real -- and thereby to "save the world", make it possible for people to "live forever" or "upload" into computers or achieve whatever pseudo-scientific Heaven they've read about in their favorite SF novels -- is a respectable and noble (and not an ignorant, silly, and wasteful) use of resources
4) Pretends that science-fiction-flavored "freakery" has anything useful to contribute to political discourse, legislation, policy formulation, allocation of public or private funds to scientific research, or even corporate product planning and development.
So yeah -- if your goal is to become the Paris Hilton or the Kardashians -- or for that matter the Barry Humphries or the Sacha Baron Cohen -- of the geek crowd, and you've got the chuzpah, looks and brains to pull it off in the wonderful world of show-biz -- then sure, fly that freak flag all the way to the bank!
But don't expect the rest of us not to guffaw when you start signing your checks "Dame Edna".
Prisco wrote:
ReplyDelete> Many science fiction fans are also very literate in science
> and have advanced degrees and a long list of peer-reviewed
> publications to prove it, and many top scientists and
> science policy wonks are also science fiction fans. . .
>
> Of co[u]rse enjoying science fiction is not the same thing
> as doing science or making science policy, but this does not
> disqualify persons interested in science fiction from doing science
> or making science policy, if they have the inclination, skills
> and qualifications.
>
> . . .
>
> I find it very strange that a person who teaches at a top college
> is unable to understand the simple words “and, also.”
Indeed, many scientists and engineers and computer programmers
are SF fans, though it wouldn't surprise me if a smaller proportion
of "top" scientists would identify themselves as such (I have
absolutely no data one way or the other).
The one person I know well who has any serious scientific training
at all (graduate study and some career experience as
a physicist; the bulk of his life has been spent copyediting
for science and math journals) is **very picky** about his SF -- he's
utterly dismissive, for example, of both _Star Trek_ and _Star Wars_, and
refuses to dignify "space opera" (anything with faster-than-light
travel or interstellar civilizations) with the term "science
fiction" -- he calls it fantasy (and he doesn't read **anything at all**
with elves, dwarfs, magic swords, or magic rings in it).
He likes **some** Greg Egan (_Distress_ but not _Permutation City_)
and **some** Vernor Vinge (_Rainbows End_, but not _A Fire Upon
the Deep_).
I would guess that the vast majority of SF fans are **not**
professional scientists, though again, I have no data.
Nevertheless, **of course** these groups can overlap -- scientists
("top" or otherwise), SF-lovers (however they may define themselves),
and fantasy-lovers. However:
What **must not** overlap -- what must remain distinct for the
sake of serious scholarship, rationality, or even sanity -- is one's
sense of the boundaries of reality and legitimate inference as
a professional scientist working in the lab,
teaching, writing grant proposals, or acting as a consultant to
business or government; as opposed to the **willing
suspension of disbelief** deliberately entertained in order to fully enjoy
a fictional SF milieu -- taking as a given, for the sake of
the story, warp drives, matter transmitters, interstellar colonies,
artificial intelligences, superpowers, or any of the usual SF
furniture (much of which my picky friend would dismiss as "fantasy"
and would **not** be willing or even able to suspend disbelief
for -- the "silly" furniture would destroy the possibility of
enjoyment for him), together with the "logic" that weaves these
elements together into a plot.
If you start trying to sit on that SF furniture as if
its upholstery can really bear the weight of human posteriors -- treating the
prospects for AI as obvious, for example, because it's been a familiar
feature of the SF you've read since you discovered comic books at
the age of 5 -- whether through ignorance or wishful thinking, or more
darkly because of narcissistic arrogance or even an attempt at
cynical manipulation -- in other words, through self deception in all its
diverse manifestations (see Robert L. Trivers' _The Folly of Fools: The
Logic of Deceit and Self-Deception in Human Life_
http://www.amazon.com/Folly-Fools-Logic-Deceit-Self-Deception/dp/0465027555 )
then you deserve to have your falling away from The Way of Rationality
(if I may borrow a phrase ;-/ ) pointed out to you. Even by persons
who teach at top colleges, who may also be equipped to point
out the legitimate and illegitimate uses of "and, also".
Odd. I find it sounds fairly coherent. In fact it makes you look a little "weird".
ReplyDeleteOdd indeed.
ReplyDelete"Khannea Suntzu" wrote [to Dale]:
ReplyDelete> [I]t makes you look a little "weird".
http://transvision2010.wordpress.com/2010/08/24/khannea-suntzu-at-transvision-2010/
---------------------
"Khannea [Suntzu] is not one person, but several associated
artists working together. Respective ‘real world’ identities
and conventions of these people are no longer relevant —
they have discarded their soul to a greater cause –
the manifestation and incarnation of something Khannea
refers to as ‘Lilith’ as an artillect [sic]."
---------------------
http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/artilect
---------------------
artilect
(ARTIficial intelLECT) A machine that is more intelligent than
a human being. The term was coined by Dr. Hugo de Garis at
Utah State University.
---------------------
Hm. I suppose imagining oneself to be the "manifestation
and incarnation" (avatar, anyone? Iain Banks' "Culture", anyone?)
of an AI named "Lilith" (_Neon Genesis Evangelion_, anyone)
is considered among >Hists to be more scientific (and hence, less weird)
than claiming to be channelling an entity called Kryon.
No blurring of reality and fantasy **here**! No, indeed.
On the other hand, maybe the on-line >Hists are in fact
the Indigo Children foretold in "Kryon Book VI, _Partnering With God_. . .
[which] spoke of the spiritual evolution of the new children of
the 'indigo' color." ( http://www.kryon.com/k_37.html)
http://spiritlibrary.com/spiritual-entities/kryon
---------------------
Kryon
Kryon is a consciousness that pervades all universes. Kryon
is rather like a committee that has the ultimate understanding
of what happens on Planet Earth, and of what goes on everywhere
else. He [has a far-reaching spiritual penis and] is everything within
this solar system. However, not only in this solar system,
but also galaxies beyond.
---------------------
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081126165434AATbXel
---------------------
Indigo children, 2012, quantum physics, kryon, DNA activation, 12 strand DNA?
. . .[P]eople are making money off these topics writing books and
holding conferences and seminars where admission is charged. . .
[W]hen I read the list of traits common to indigo children I felt
that it described me pretty accurately. . ., and while I'm skeptical
of the whole thing, it does seem like more and more of these
personality types are being born, why is that? I also want to
know more about the topics I listed above, whats true and whats not,
whats proven and whats not, I want FACTS as opposed to opinions
especially in regards to the 12 strand DNA stuff, I'd also like
to know if advancements in quantum physics (like regarding
extra dimensions and parallel universes) are related to a supposed
coming awareness and 2012, and whether these scientific advancements
are coinciding with the 2012 stuff for a reason.
---------------------
The Truth Is Out There! (Somewhere.)
;->
Transhumanism is a conspiracy! Centered in
ReplyDeleteConnecticut. (Remember _The Stepford Wives_?
That was in Connecticut too!)
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=107801
-------------------------
The almost universal consensus seems to be that Indigo or
Star Children are extraterrestial or genetically engineered
by aliens or just somehow spiritually superior. . .
I have been communicating with a person who had a child
born at Yale. This child is now a teenager.
He has had trouble in school with
other children and even teachers. The parents and the
son feel the behavior of the others is very bizarre.
This teenager is very gifted, he is way beyond his years
in maturity, intelligence and insight. He senses things
which have not happened yet and understands things
his parents don't understand. . .
I have been looking into certain issues concerning Yale.
They have a globalization Think Tank. . . .
Jose Delgado....the inventor of remote control mind control...
was a professor there. . .
I thought I would look up more about Yale. I came across
the term Transhumanism. I didn't really know what it meant
so I looked it up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism
I found that Yale has a professor named Nick Bostrom who
is a professor at Yale and is the founder of the Transhumanism
movement. . . I have felt for a long time that more goes
on at Yale than we know about. . .
Yale was also involved with the Human Genome Project
which I would think would entail genetic experimentation?
Could it be that all the talk about Star Children or
Indigo Children is to get us to think that they have some
sort of special Divine inheritance? Are these children
really a product of earthly genetic manipulation?
Could all this be related to the transhumanism movement?
-------------------------
And see also:
http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2007/09sep/RICR-070920.html
-------------------------
Michael Tsarion Return to Red Ice Creations Radio to Discuss the
Post Human World, The Future of Mankind, Transhumanism.
Topics Discussed: 2012, The End of the World, New Technology,
Science, Drugs, SSRI's and the "Removing" of Suffering,
The Technotopia, The New Man, Spiritual Aspect of Man,
The Cyborgs, Man-Machine Symbiosis, The Technological Singularity,
Biotech, Genomics, The Vulcans, Craig J Venter,
The Human Genome Project, Aubrey de Grey, Longevity,
Artificial Intelligence, The Templar's, Eternal Life
and the Quest for the "Holy Grail", Methusala, Symbolism,
The Archon's and much, much more.
-------------------------
http://www.in5d.com/michael-tsarion-nephilim-atlantis-and-transhumanism.html
Michael Tsarion: Nephilim, Atlantis & Transhumanism
**Those** Vulcans?
(Yeah, some people have overly, uh, permeable
mental boundaries.)
;->
Where's the BS? He conceded about 80% of your points.
ReplyDeleteIt just looks like that to you because ya been brainwashed Blanche, now bow down, minion!
ReplyDeleteBut I don' know **nothin'** 'about washin' brains, Miz Scarlett!
ReplyDeleteMan, if you really want to see odd & weird, check out Khannea's website.
ReplyDeleteHuge props for letting that freak flag fly so proudly. An entire Amazon wish list of ninja weapons?? Claiming to be 280 years old (at least poetically)?? I'm a fan for life.
I will recommend giving up on the dream of owning that lame Tron motorcycle. A BMW GS1200 is a much better choice if you think you might have to fight zombies.
The internet is awesome.
> Man, if you really want to see odd & weird,
ReplyDelete> check out Khannea's website.
>
> Huge props for letting that freak flag fly so proudly.
You know, freak flags are fine. Entertainment is fine.
Exhibitionism is fine ("for people who like that sort of
thing, that's the sort of thing they like").
What isn't fine, or at least what does **not** deserve
to be received in solemn and reverential silence, but
rather deserves to be laughed at, roundly mocked, and
wittily snarked at (as well as drily debunked), is
freakery that:
1) Pretends to have a clearer view "the Future" than
any other carnival gypsy's crystal ball
2) Pretends to know more about the implications of "science"
than practicing scientists
3) Pretends that donating money (or encouraging the general
public to donate money) to a con artist, self-promoter, or
deluded guru who claims to be laboring to make science-fiction
cliches real -- and thereby to "save the world", make it possible
for people to "live forever" or "upload" into computers
or achieve whatever pseudo-scientific Heaven they've read
about in their favorite SF novels -- is a respectable
and noble (and not an ignorant, silly, and wasteful) use of
resources
4) Pretends that science-fiction-flavored "freakery" has
anything useful to contribute to political discourse,
legislation, policy formulation, allocation of public
or private funds to scientific research, or even corporate
product planning and development.
So yeah -- if your goal is to become the Paris Hilton or
the Kardashians -- or for that matter the Barry Humphries
or the Sacha Baron Cohen -- of the geek crowd, and you've got the
chuzpah, looks and brains to pull it off in the wonderful
world of show-biz -- then sure, fly that freak flag all the
way to the bank!
But don't expect the rest of us not to guffaw when you
start signing your checks "Dame Edna".
I agree.
ReplyDelete