http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/2011-July/067773.html ------------------------ [ExI] Libertarianism wins again... Richard Loosemore
[. . . wrote:]
> This guy is a total liberal who has fallen into the logical trap that > is Libertarianism.
Oh for pity's sake.
I am really sick of reading this libertarian crap on a mailing list that is supposed to be about the future.
Do me a favor and form a separate extropy-for-future-libertarian-fantasies mailing list, or else make it clear, up front, that this list is NOT designed for a broad cross section of people who are passionate about the future, but will ONLY welcome people who want to get to the future because they think it will bring them some kind of fantasy libertarian paradise. ------------------------ [ExI] Libertarianism wins again... spike spike66
>Do me a favor and form a separate extropy-for-future-libertarian-fantasies > mailing list...
That response was quite unnecessarily harsh. . .
Libertarianism is in Extropy's DNA. One need not be libertarian, only tolerant. ------------------------ [ExI] Libertarianism wins again... Will Steinberg
Sorry I can't be as starry-eyed as some of you. Government needs to be there to do things that couldn't be paid for or organized otherwise. Sorry (again,) but it's true. Countless infrastructural components of our daily lives cannot simply tune into the wondrous libertarian free-market force, because there is no cognizant demand for them. Everything that is a unitary product, people can pay for. Some things, like highways, will never be a dollar at the local supermarket. This is what taxes and tolls are for, because most people living in a country are too unaware of the fact that countless government-provided amenities that they use every day require money to maintain. If you're so concerned about the evils of current-day government (which are very, very scary and apparent)--do something about it! Go make a new government somewhere!
Because I can guarantee your libertarian paradise will never exist. Now, more then ever, a benevolent controlling force is needed to make sure things proceed in the right direction. Do you not have the drive to become it? Because I will [become the benevolent controlling force?], if you don't.
. . .
Deregulation will let the biggest organized criminals of all--the corporations--go unchecked.
I simply believe government is, *by far*, the lesser of these two evils. I will also heartily and readily admit that the current US government (and probably all current country governments) is pretty evil.
However, if y'all really care about changing the world, it is my personal opinion that there is only one good way to do it in time. A grand paternalism, if you will. Human unity! What could be better? Individualism is selfish. Don't tear me apart for that one! ------------------------ [ExI] Libertarianism wins again... Samantha Atkins
> Deregulation will let the biggest organized criminals of all--the > corporations--go unchecked. . . > > Human unity! What could be better? > Individualism is selfish. Don't tear me apart for that one!
Rational self-interest is the only grounded basis for ethics I know of. You seem to be engaging in most of the tearing here, albeit in a rather ill-informed and poorly argued manner. Perhaps I should thank you for making opinions I strongly disagree with look bad. ------------------------
> More Dispatches from Libertopia. . .
ReplyDeleteFound on a mailing list archive:
http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/2011-July/067773.html
------------------------
[ExI] Libertarianism wins again...
Richard Loosemore
[. . . wrote:]
> This guy is a total liberal who has fallen into the logical trap that
> is Libertarianism.
Oh for pity's sake.
I am really sick of reading this libertarian crap on a mailing list that
is supposed to be about the future.
Do me a favor and form a separate
extropy-for-future-libertarian-fantasies mailing list, or else make it
clear, up front, that this list is NOT designed for a broad cross
section of people who are passionate about the future, but will ONLY
welcome people who want to get to the future because they think it will
bring them some kind of fantasy libertarian paradise.
------------------------
[ExI] Libertarianism wins again...
spike spike66
>Do me a favor and form a separate extropy-for-future-libertarian-fantasies
> mailing list...
That response was quite unnecessarily harsh. . .
Libertarianism is in Extropy's DNA. One need not be libertarian, only
tolerant.
------------------------
[ExI] Libertarianism wins again...
Will Steinberg
Sorry I can't be as starry-eyed as some of you. Government needs to be
there to do things that couldn't be paid for or organized otherwise. Sorry
(again,) but it's true. Countless infrastructural components of our daily
lives cannot simply tune into the wondrous libertarian free-market force,
because there is no cognizant demand for them. Everything that is a unitary
product, people can pay for. Some things, like highways, will never be a
dollar at the local supermarket. This is what taxes and tolls are for,
because most people living in a country are too unaware of the fact that
countless government-provided amenities that they use every day require
money to maintain. If you're so concerned about the evils of current-day
government (which are very, very scary and apparent)--do something about it!
Go make a new government somewhere!
Because I can guarantee your libertarian paradise will never exist. Now,
more then ever, a benevolent controlling force is needed to make sure things
proceed in the right direction. Do you not have the drive to become it?
Because I will [become the benevolent controlling force?], if you don't.
. . .
Deregulation will let the biggest organized criminals of all--the
corporations--go unchecked.
I simply believe government is, *by far*, the lesser of these two evils. I
will also heartily and readily admit that the current US government (and
probably all current country governments) is pretty evil.
However, if y'all really care about changing the world, it is my personal
opinion that there is only one good way to do it in time. A grand
paternalism, if you will. Human unity! What could be better?
Individualism is selfish. Don't tear me apart for that one!
------------------------
[ExI] Libertarianism wins again...
Samantha Atkins
> Deregulation will let the biggest organized criminals of all--the
> corporations--go unchecked. . .
>
> Human unity! What could be better?
> Individualism is selfish. Don't tear me apart for that one!
Rational self-interest is the only grounded basis for ethics I know of.
You seem to be engaging in most of the tearing here, albeit in a rather
ill-informed and poorly argued manner. Perhaps I should thank you for
making opinions I strongly disagree with look bad.
------------------------
;->