tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post7222694125726862325..comments2023-11-22T01:14:54.298-08:00Comments on amor mundi: The Pathologization of Donald TrumpDale Carricohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02811055279887722298noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post-9560803652092960572016-08-08T15:33:58.373-07:002016-08-08T15:33:58.373-07:00the toothpaste is completely out of the tube on th...<i>the toothpaste is completely out of the tube on this (just search "narcissistic" or "borderline" on Google or YouTube). You may deplore this; I think it's a **good thing**, for people who need to know what the hell is going on with the difficult people they have to deal with</i><br /><br />Well, clearly part of our dispute is the question whether amateur diagnoses of actually unknown celebrities helps anyone know "what the hell is going on" as a matter of fact -- and there are good reasons to think this enables some to abuse vulnerable people they think of as "difficult" when in fact that may simply be different in ways that should not matter or are better dealt with through good manners and a professional HR department in an organized workplace.<br /><br /><i>This is actually a facet of a bigger issue -- the "democratization" of what, until the Web came into existence, were "professional secrets".</i><br /><br />In terms of "toothpaste out of the tube" I agree this is a different and important issue. I personally think the democratization of expertise should be about making access to training and credentialization equitable and then assuring the exercise of expert authority is accountable rather than insulated from consequence. I think the wikileakification of resistance discourse overgeneralizes secrecy as the problem of power -- a view consistent with anarchist attitudes and principles actually avowed by many of the participants and admirers of these Anonymous-to-Assange would-be insurgents. I don't want to seem to deny the importance of anti-secrecy -- black budgets are unconstitutional for a reason (though few seem to care in practice) and proprietary knowledge production in the academy has facilitated its demolition (ditto) -- but just as I don't want to smash the state but to democratize it, I do not wish to smash expertise but make it accessible and accountable. I'm such a square. Dale Carricohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02811055279887722298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post-44417269640658118452016-08-08T14:07:34.269-07:002016-08-08T14:07:34.269-07:00> Now that you're retired you should go bac...> Now that you're retired you should go back to school and become a psychologist...<br /><br />My major (at NYU) was computer science, and my minor **was**<br />psychology. ;-><br /><br />The last Abnormal Psych course I took, though, was in the summer<br />of 1973 at the University of Delaware. The professor was the<br />classic TV/movie psychoanalyst, complete with German<br />accent. ;-><br /><br />(I just tried to find a YouTube clip of the old _Twilight Zone_<br />episode "Number Twelve Looks Just Like You" with Marilyn being<br />interviewed by "Professor Sigmund Friend", but alas, I couldn't<br />find one.)jimfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04975754342950063440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post-3351499090006077982016-08-08T14:02:12.100-07:002016-08-08T14:02:12.100-07:00> I do think there are moral judgments to be ma...> I do think there are moral judgments to be made about<br />> character in our politicians and in the upbringing of<br />> children and so on... I just think they should not<br />> masquerade as scientific or clinical diagnoses when they<br />> are not made by those with the credentials and context to<br />> offer them up.<br /><br />Well, clearly I don't agree with you here, so I guess we'll<br />have to "agree to disagree" -- I doubt if either of us is<br />going to change the other's point of view.<br /><br />As I mentioned earlier, though, the toothpaste is completely<br />out of the tube on this (just search "narcissistic" or "borderline"<br />on Google or YouTube). You may deplore this; I think it's<br />a **good thing**, for people who need to know what the hell is<br />going on with the difficult people they have to deal with<br />(or even, for that matter, the politicians they may or may not vote for),<br />and who aren't likely to get straight answers from professionals.<br /><br />This is actually a facet of a bigger issue -- the "democratization"<br />of what, until the Web came into existence, were "professional secrets".<br />(Some) doctors also deplore the easy availability of medical information<br />on the Web. The excuse is that people will misinterpret or misuse<br />the information, or not know how to distinguish reliable from<br />unreliable information. But part of the disapproval (whether or not<br />it's admitted) is the diminishment of professional authority, and the<br />unpleasant prospect of being challenged by a client.jimfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04975754342950063440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post-10538537526573500262016-08-08T13:56:02.748-07:002016-08-08T13:56:02.748-07:00Now that you're retired you should go back to ...Now that you're retired you should go back to school and become a psychologist... I could use an analyst.Dale Carricohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02811055279887722298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post-84296823110475499082016-08-08T13:44:44.817-07:002016-08-08T13:44:44.817-07:00> Mao's general reaction to the devastating...> Mao's general reaction to the devastating<br />> effects of his policies was to pretend that<br />> they weren't happening.<br /><br />If this is indeed a qualification for a head of state, then I'm prepared<br />to admit that Donald Trump is **the** most qualified candidate<br />for the job.<br /><br />http://www.economist.com/news/americas/21701790-unflattering-light-day-cost-truth<br />-------------<br />The cost of truth<br />The unflattering light of day<br />Jul 9th 2016<br />BUENOS AIRES<br /><br />DURING her eight years as Argentina’s president,<br />Cristina Fernández de Kirchner had a way of dealing<br />with nasty facts: denying them. When annual inflation<br />reached 27%, she said the number was wrong. “If it were<br />as high as they say it is,” she scoffed in September 2012,<br />“the country would explode.” But truth will out: by<br />the time she left office last year, a 100-peso note -- the most<br />valuable -- fetched just $10, less than a third of its level<br />when she took office. Unwilling to admit this plunge,<br />Ms Fernández. . . refused to issue bigger bills. Queues<br />formed at ATMs; . . . some machines had to be refilled twice<br />daily and repaired monthly.<br /><br />Mauricio Macri, the country’s president since December, prefers<br />to cast a colder eye on reality. On June 30th a 500-peso note<br />appeared at his government’s behest. . . [O]n the streets of<br />Buenos Aires, the note is welcome. . . “Hopefully it will cut<br />queues,” sighed Mariela, a hospital worker, as she waited<br />with 28 others to use a newly-replenished cash dispenser.<br />“This is a waste of time.”<br />====<br /><br /><br />> I've indulged in this sort of thing here over the years all<br />> too often, I've called the GOP and the Robot Cult "crazytown"<br />> and "batshit crazy" and all the rest more times than I care<br />> to recall for all the good it did my arguments against them.<br /><br />Well, I myself have never, as far as I can recall, used the<br />word "crazy". I prefer to use the precise clinical categories,<br />and only when I really think they're applicable (rather than<br />as a form of rhetorical hyperbole).<br /><br />Psychologists and psychiatrists do not use the word "crazy",<br />at least not in their professional roles. ;-> And if "crazy"<br />is to be interpreted as a colloquial synonym for the more<br />technical term "psychotic", then it is worth pointing out that<br />the so-called "Axis II personality disorders" are certainly **not**<br />forms of psychosis. Whatever disturbances they may create in<br />the lives of their "sufferers" (or their "victims"), they do<br />not entail a complete break with reality, or an inability<br />to distinguish right from wrong.jimfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04975754342950063440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post-80166132637324477192016-08-08T13:32:01.426-07:002016-08-08T13:32:01.426-07:00The risks of putting a madman into a position of p...<i>The risks of putting a madman into a position of power are too<br />great, don't you think?</i><br /><br />As I said at the beginning, Trump is demonstrably and repeatedly deceitful, uninformed, reckless, and bigoted. I think the risks of putting a serially lying, intemperate, bigoted ignoramus into a position of power are too great. I don't see how anything is gained by non-experts "diagnosing" him from a distance as a "madman." Again, as I said at the beginning, I have been convinced by reading and hearing from folks who have diagnosed conditions that the many stereotypes and errors circulating make glib recourse to the topic in discussing public figures contributes to their precarity. I guess I see why this seems like "political correctness" since it is about treating vulnerable people as actually real and their concerns as actually shared by us all, but it also seems one could frame this as an effort at straightforward correctness. By the way, I am not too keen on the popular mythology of "profiling" as criminological typologies of The Criminal Mind... which seems to me to justify rather reactionary monsterization of menacing criminals as crime rates descend and is often stratified by racist and sexist prejudices that enable and rationalize police abuses. Again, I do think there are moral judgments to be made about character in our politicians and in the upbringing of children and so on... I just think they should not masquerade as scientific or clinical diagnoses when they are not made by those with the credentials and context to offer them up. When it comes to the pathologization of public figures by non-experts who don't have relevant personal knowledge, I certainly have not "shut it down" or declared the topic "out of bounds" ...I have simply declared it a practice I long engaged in myself and have come to see as erroneous and damaging to vulnerable people who are already dealing with enough. I don't mean to seem disrespectful or judgmental about it, I've indulged in this sort of thing here over the years all too often, I've called the GOP and the Robot Cult "crazytown" and "batshit crazy" and all the rest more times than I care to recall for all the good it did my arguments against them.Dale Carricohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02811055279887722298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post-31032164843547695792016-08-08T10:36:17.402-07:002016-08-08T10:36:17.402-07:00> The risks of putting a madman into a position...<br />> The risks of putting a madman into a position of power are too<br />> great, don't you think?<br /><br /><br />http://amormundi.blogspot.com/2007/10/todays-random-wilde.html<br />------------<br />From _Evil Genes: Why Rome Fell, Hitler Rose, Enron Failed,<br />and My Sister Stole My Mother's Boyfriend_ by Barbara Oakley<br /><br />http://www.amazon.com/Evil-Genes-Hitler-Mothers-Boyfriend/dp/159102580X<br /><br />Chapter 9, "The Perfect 'Borderpath': Chairman Mao"<br />pp. 216 et seq.<br /><br />Mao [Zedong] was the most Machiavellian leader of the<br />many Machiavellian leaders of the twentieth century.<br />For three decades, he held absolute power over the lives<br />of one-quarter of the world's population. As historian<br />R. J. Rummel writes: 'For perspective on Mao's most bloody<br />rule, all wars [worldwide] 1900-1987 cost in combat dead<br />34,021,000 -- including WWI and II, Vietnam, Korea, and<br />the Mexican and Russian Revolutions. Mao alone murdered<br />over twice as many as were killed in combat in all those<br />wars. He also killed nearly four times as many as are<br />thought to have died in **four hundred years** of the<br />African slave trade, from capture to sale in Arab, Oriental,<br />or New World markets.<br /><br />Therefore it is perhaps surprising to find that psychologists,<br />psychoanalysts, and psychiatrists of the time, and even<br />today, rarely make serious efforts to address the possibility<br />of serious mental illness in motivating Mao's behavior. But<br />MIT political scientist Lucian Pye, who published an early<br />biography of Mao in 1976, the year of Mao's death, provides<br />a lucid explanation for the reticence: '[B]ecause I knew that<br />I was already going out onto thin ice by psychologically<br />interpreting the near-sacred Mao, I decided that it would not<br />be prudent, indeed that it would be counter-productive, to use<br />any technical terminology. Therefore, I did not go public<br />in announcing that Mao Zedong was probably a narcissist with<br />a borderline personality, a combination that is not rare.<br />I suspect that if I had stated that this was the case, it would<br />have brought many people's blood to the boiling point. . .<br /><br />Mao's general reaction to the devastating<br />effects of his policies was to pretend that they weren't happening.<br />His staff, all too aware of what could happen to them if they<br />revealed the truth, served to insulate him even further. But the<br />situation deteriorated so drastically that the truth could not<br />be hidden. Dr. Li [Zhisui, Mao's personal physician,] describes<br />the insider's perspective on Mao's reactions.<br /><br />'Mao . . . seemed psychologically incapable of confronting the effects<br />of the famine. When I told him that edema and hepatitis were<br />everywhere, he accused me of inventing trouble. "You physicians<br />have nothing better to do than scare people," he snapped. "You're<br />just out looking for disease. If no one were sick, you'd all<br />be unemployed." . . . I thought Mao was ruthless to close his eyes<br />to the illness that was everywhere around him. But I allowed him<br />his illusions and never mentioned the subject again, behaving<br />in his presence as though hunger and disease had miraculously<br />disappeared.'<br /><br />Dr. Li notes: 'Mao was loath to admit his mistakes. His was a life<br />with no regrets . . . I am convinced Mao never really believed<br />he had done anything wrong.' . . .<br /><br />As Dr. Li notes, 'To this day, ruthless though he was, I believe<br />Mao launched the Great Leap Forward to bring good to China. . . .<br />The twentieth century was marching forward and Mao was stuck<br />in the nineteenth, unable to lead his country. Now he was in<br />retreat, trying to figure out what to do. Tragically, the<br />cognitive equipment Mao was using to do his 'figuring' with was --<br />**different**. . .<br />====<br /><br /><br />Sound like anybody you know?jimfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04975754342950063440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post-58952979423482212092016-08-08T10:33:51.841-07:002016-08-08T10:33:51.841-07:00So P. Z. Myers has weighed in on the "diagnos...So P. Z. Myers has weighed in on the "diagnosing Donald Trump" issue.<br /><br />http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2016/08/07/it-works-both-ways/<br />------------<br />Martin Shkreli, the repellent pharma-bro, is now publicly diagnosing<br />Hillary Clinton with Parkinson’s Disease. . .<br /><br />He has no qualifications at all for offering medical advice. . .<br /><br />If you find this as revolting and inappropriate as I do, I’ll<br />just mention…do you feel the same way about all the non-psychiatrists<br />claiming that Donald Trump, or his mobs of cheering fans,<br />are mentally ill?<br /><br />Don’t be like Martin Shkreli.<br />====<br /><br /><br />I can see the analogy he's trying to make, but I don't buy it.<br /><br />Look, as Sam Vaknin has pointed out, even the CIA "profiles" foreign<br />leaders these days according to these recognized DSM diagnostic<br />criteria.<br /><br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpzNLVLXHt0<br />------------<br />Trump, Clinton - Narcissists? "Experts" Spew NONSENSE!<br />Sam Vaknin<br />Mar 24, 2016<br /><br />(3:15/22:40)<br /><br />Can we "remote diagnose" a politician, or any other person. . .?<br />The answer is, of course, no. Proper diagnosis requires a set<br />of tests, structured interviews, and face-to-face meetings<br />where the diagnostician, who is a very experienced mental health<br />practitioner, is able to observe present signs, body language,<br />and other parameters. . . But there is a big difference between<br />diagnosis and evaluation. We can and do evaluate politicians<br />on a constant basis. The CIA has a department dedicated to<br />"remote diagnosing" world leaders. The predecessor of the<br />CIA, the OSS, constructed a wonderful psychological profile<br />of Adolf Hitler, which is now available on-line.<br />Saddam Hussein's psychological profile, written by Dr. Post,<br />is also available on-line. And what is psychological profiling<br />of serial killers if not remote evaluation? So we regularly<br />remote evaluate people with public exposure. Actually, there<br />is a thriving scholarly literature which tries to "remote diagnose"<br />living and dead world leaders. . .<br />====<br /><br /><br />Hey if it's good enough for the CIA, then surely it's good enough<br />for public thrashing out for the sake of an informed electorate.<br />We can only hope that idiosyncratic and poorly-supporter outliers,<br />like Shkreli's (non-psychological) "diagnosis" of Hillary Clinton<br />will be subject to the critical scrutiny and skepticism they<br />deserver. That's all you can do, in the public forum of ideas.<br />Declaring the whole subject "out of bounds", and shutting it down<br />in the name of politeness, or "political correctness", or<br />ideological squeamishness, isn't going to make the world a better<br />place, IMHO.<br /><br />The risks of putting a madman into a position of power are too<br />great, don't you think?jimfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04975754342950063440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post-57597722580414241612016-08-08T10:10:18.915-07:002016-08-08T10:10:18.915-07:00> > > [T]here are lots of people living w...> > > [T]here are lots of people living with diagnosed conditions<br />> > > who are widely misunderstood and vulnerable to mistreatment<br />> > > and it is easy to see how they are hurt by a national dialogue<br />> > > ridiculing. . . ["]crazy["]. . .<br />> ><br />> It has been pointed out. . . that Cluster Bs **take<br />> advantage** of this kind of rhetoric in some rather unsavory<br />> ways. [I.e., hide behind any reluctance to diagnose them]<br /><br />I was trying to find this quote the other day, but only<br />just stumbled on it again.<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdwFINCrlw0<br />-------------<br />Going Mental: You Might as Well Face it, You're Addicted to Borderline<br />Paul Elam<br />Aug 27, 2014<br /><br />(8:48/1:05:11)<br /><br />Paul Elam: Having a mental disorder, or disease, or mental illness,<br />or whatever you want to call it, depending on what it is, does<br />not guarantee my sympathies. I don't have sympathies, for instance,<br />for serial killers, which are obviously very mentally sick people. . .<br />So at some point, in pathology, my take on it is that I don't<br />care. I don't care much about sociopaths, whether they're the kind<br />that go in and out of prison or whether they're the kind that<br />end up in Congress because they're so good at exploiting and<br />manipulating people. . . Because there are so many biases against<br />men in the mental health system. . . as a matter of fact, somebody<br />just e-mailed me yesterday. . . the Good Men Project published an<br />article telling men that were victims of physical abuse in relationships<br />that they needed to learn how to "deal with it" and have<br />compassion for the women who were beating on them. . .<br />I know that borderlines are very unhappy people most of the time,<br />I know they have a lot of pain, I know they suffer, I know that<br />they have emotional lability and really do have a hard time.<br />But. . . they destroy people. They don't look at themselves and<br />repair and fix. . . There may be some that do as they get older. . .<br />if they're not so severe [then] age takes care of part of it.<br />But. . . we're talking about people that cause a wake of destruction<br />through the lives of one person after another. . . and I don't<br />feel compassion for that. . . So, for the borderlines out there<br />who are offended by what I have to say, all I can say is<br />"It's too bad". . .<br /><br />Dr. Tara Palmatier: I've seen this on my site. I've quit allowing<br />comments, because borderlines have more than enough forums on<br />the internet where they go and get support and milk and cookies<br />and "Oh yes, it must be so hard having to live with yourself after<br />abusing people and pushing them away from you." And I get it.<br />That's a shitty existence. But they're the architects of their<br />own misery, ultimately. And I'm sorry for them. And if they're<br />sincerely trying to get help [to] stop the abuses that they<br />perpetrate on others and themselves, then that's great. I wish<br />you the very best. But what I also see. . . is that the diagnosis<br />is used as an excuse to abuse carte blanche and to expect<br />pity and sympathy from their victims. And that does not fly,<br />as far as I'm concerned. . .<br />====<br /><br /><br />It is interesting that Cluster B diagnoses tend to be "gendered".<br />Far more men than women are diagnosed with "Narcissistic<br />Personality Disorder", and far more women than men are<br />diagnosed with "Borderline Personality Disorder". It's quite<br />conceivable that there are similar underlying propensities<br />(culminating in "gendered" presenting behaviors) that have been<br />divergently shaped by the cultural milieu and gender<br />expectations.<br />jimfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04975754342950063440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post-78132032818844549102016-08-07T11:56:14.659-07:002016-08-07T11:56:14.659-07:00> [T]here are lots of people living with diagno...<br />> [T]here are lots of people living with diagnosed conditions<br />> who are widely misunderstood and vulnerable to mistreatment<br />> and it is easy to see how they are hurt by a national dialogue<br />> ridiculing. . . crazy. . .<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgrfeRVRH1E<br />-------------<br />What Part of 'Borderlines are Crazy and Dangerous' Do You Not Understand?<br />Paul Elam <br />Sep 24, 2014<br /><br />(33:56/1:07:36)<br /><br />Dr. Tara Palmatier: Look, somebody doesn't have to qualify for a full<br />diagnosis to still be a nightmare and an abusive mess. And at the<br />end of the day, I think the diagnostic label is helpful, because<br />you can research it, you can study it, you can learn what signs<br />to look out for, but at the end of the day, whether or not the person<br />actually receives an official diagnosis, in my opinion, doesn't<br />matter. What matters are the behaviors. . .<br />====<br /><br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN6nkRzHDSU<br />-------------<br />Will Our Next President Be a Psychopath?<br />TheLipTV<br />Mar 3, 2016<br /><br />(45:39/53:12)<br /><br />James Fallon: Allison, the first person I worked with when<br />I came out to UC San Diego was a pediatric endocrinologist<br />who did some really fundamental research. This was back in<br />the late 70s. But he told me something that was really curious<br />at the time. He said, "You know, this kid I just saw this<br />morning is three years old, and I know he's going to be a<br />psychopath when he grows up." And I said, "Did you tell the<br />mother?" He said, "Absolutely not!" He said "I'd lose my<br />license, I'd have people beating down the door, I'd probably<br />be shot. I'm not going to tell anybody this!" And up until<br />a couple of years ago he said he'd **never** admit to the media<br />or anything that he knew these kids, at three years old, are<br />going to be psychopaths. He could **see** it. And, he says,<br />even when he's hinted at that serious a problem, the parents<br />would be in denial. Especially. . . usually the mother. . .<br />naturally, would be in denial. And it's a very natural response<br />to think, first of all, that babies are born a blank slate --<br />tabula rasa -- and that we mold them as parents. And we're<br />the ones who are going to make this person good. And<br />therefore **I** know what this person is, and they're just<br />rambunctious, right, at three years old, but I'm going to make<br />a good person. Religions do the same thing, and so do<br />governments -- they think they're going to mold somebody,<br />and this turns out to be -- as we've found out in the last<br />ten years or so -- **not** true. . .<br />====<br /><br /><br />http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/13/magazine/can-you-call-a-9-year-old-a-psychopath.html<br />-------------<br />Can You Call a 9-Year-Old a Psychopath?<br />By JENNIFER KAHN<br />MAY 11, 2012<br /><br />. . .<br /><br />By the time he turned 5, Michael had developed an uncanny ability to<br />switch from full-blown anger to moments of pure rationality or<br />calculated charm —- a facility that Anne describes as deeply<br />unsettling. “You never know when you’re going to see a proper emotion,”<br />she said. She recalled one argument, over a homework assignment,<br />when Michael shrieked and wept as she tried to reason with him.<br />“I said: ‘Michael, remember the brainstorming we did yesterday?<br />All you have to do is take your thoughts from that and turn them<br />into sentences, and you’re done!’ He’s still screaming bloody murder,<br />so I say, ‘Michael, I thought we brainstormed so we could avoid<br />all this drama today.’ He stopped dead, in the middle of the screaming,<br />turned to me and said in this flat, adult voice, ‘Well, you didn’t<br />think that through very clearly then, did you?’ ” . . .<br />====<br /><br /><br />Very, very politicized. (And yes, I know what P. Z. Myers thinks of<br />Paul Elam. ;-> )<br />jimfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04975754342950063440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post-63817561718091933232016-08-07T11:04:20.747-07:002016-08-07T11:04:20.747-07:00> [T]o disqualify [Trump] as "crazy" ...> [T]o disqualify [Trump] as "crazy" critics smear him with<br />> stereotypes the recourse to which harms vulnerable people<br />> who aren't Trump. . .<br />><br />> [T]here are lots of people living with diagnosed conditions<br />> who are widely misunderstood and vulnerable to mistreatment<br />> and it is easy to see how they are hurt by a national dialogue<br />> ridiculing Donald Trump as a crazy man. . .<br /><br />This **sounds** very compassionate, and socially progressive,<br />and standardly left-wing.<br /><br />It has been pointed out, however, that Cluster Bs **take<br />advantage** of this kind of rhetoric in some rather unsavory<br />ways.<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gS7OLRJ_Bw<br />----------------<br />Going Mental: Dangerous Personality Disorders (Borderlines and Narcissists)<br />Shrink4Men <br />Sep 10, 2015<br /><br />(10:18/1:07:36)<br /><br />Dr. Tara Palmatier: I want to go back a little bit and add another<br />dimension to why guys question. . . some of what you or I or many people<br />looking at [the situation] objectively would say "Yes, this person is<br />a dangerous lunatic and you should look for the nearest exit<br />sign and run as if your butt was on fire." But a lot of the guys<br />I work with have gone to couples counselling, or individual<br />counselling with therapists. . . [and have been told to<br />extend more] understanding to their abusers and work harder<br />at not triggering their abusers. I had a session with a<br />gentleman just this morning and he gave me permission to share<br />this. He. . . [has engaged] DBT -- Dialectical Behavior Therapy<br />practitioners for his wife. . . other individual therapists<br />that they've worked with have said they **won't** diagnose her,<br />but they have told him, privately, that yes, she is most<br />likely [Borderline Personality], yet they won't diagnose her,<br />which is part of the problem. He had a session with a female<br />DBT practitioner, and I gave him some tips on screening, like<br />(1) find out if she's a feminist, (2) find out if she believes<br />that women are capable of abusing men. So he asked her some very<br />pointed questions. She was a bit defensive. . . [He asked] "So,<br />if I were to start yelling at my wife in session with you,<br />would you qualify that as abusive?" And she said "Yes."<br />"And if she did that to me in session?" And she's like, "Well,<br />I would tell her that that isn't an effective communication<br />technique." Not abusive, just "poor communication skills".<br />And this is a fucking DBT practitioner! And then he came to<br />find out. . . her undergraduate degree was in gender studies.<br /><br />Paul Elam: I'm so surprised.<br /><br />Tara Palmatier: Yeah. And she believes in the Duluth Model.<br />Which is an interesting conundrum. So, if your ideology. . .<br />If you're a therapist, a psychologist, a social worker, a practitioner<br />of Dialectical Behavior Therapy for Borderline individuals, many<br />of whom are women, and your ideology tells you that men are **always**<br />the primary aggressors, and if women are behaving in an abusive<br />fashion it's because of patriarchy, and they're reacting to the<br />oppression of men, how the **fuck** do you treat somebody with<br />BPD who is abusing their husband, boyfriend, and children? If<br />the BPD individual is a woman? Isn't that a conflict?<br />====<br /><br /><br />All this stuff is **heavily** politicized. And for a "civilian"<br />to just defer to his or her preferred ideological bromides as<br />the paradigm for "right thinking" on these topics -- well, that's hardly<br />doing anybody any good, but if you're lucky you can probably get away<br />with it for a lifetime because it doesn't concern you directly<br />(as with so many other things).<br /><br />God help you, though, if you get sucked into one of these relationships<br />**personally**.<br />jimfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04975754342950063440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post-26336407176622684552016-08-07T10:07:25.185-07:002016-08-07T10:07:25.185-07:00More from the trenches (no Times for me today, whi...More from the trenches (no Times for me today, which is<br />kind of unusual for a Sunday).<br /><br />http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/politics/wire/military-community-split-over-trump-s-feud-with-khans/article_906598ef-071a-5ce5-ae7e-1dd7ce80775d.html<br />----------------<br />Military community split over Trump's feud with Khans<br />by Ben Finley<br />The Associated Press<br />August 6, 2016<br /><br />NORFOLK, Va. (AP) — Robin Starck is a retired submarine commander who<br />still lives in the shadow of America's largest naval base, and he's<br />heard all the shouting about Donald Trump and his tangle with the<br />parents of a U.S. Army officer killed in Iraq.<br /><br />Doesn't matter. He's still for Trump.<br /><br />"Trump goes to the extreme," said Starck, 79. "Sometimes he<br />goes off the wall." But he added, "I don't see myself<br />changing my mind." . . .<br /><br />[S]everal interviewed. . . this past week. . . said they have<br />other concerns that are keeping them loyal to Trump, among them<br />picking a conservative Supreme Court justice to replace the<br />late Antonin Scalia and getting rid of President Barack Obama's<br />health care law, which Hillary Clinton pledges to defend. . .<br /><br />Jacob Jeske, 28, a commercial diver from Portsmouth, said the<br />episode was not a "big deal to me."<br /><br />"He means well," Jeske said. "He's just going by his emotions. He's not<br />sitting there and thinking about it."<br /><br />Jeske believes a Trump presidency would mean more work for him, given the<br />candidate's promises to invest deeply in the military. As a diver,<br />Jeske often makes his living by helping to maintain Navy ships.<br /><br />"Trump knows that the military comes first, before any refugees or<br />anyone else," he said.<br /><br />Richard Cormier, 61, a civilian doctor on a Navy supply ship, agrees.<br /><br />"If he's going to build a strong military, all the other issues go away,"<br />said Cormier, who is stationed in Norfolk. "That directly bears on my<br />job. I don't even watch the news anymore, because it's all mudslinging<br />and people getting shot." . . .<br />====<br /><br />;-><br /><br /><br />And speaking of psychotherapists:<br /><br /><br />Loc. cit.<br />----------------<br />Carolyn Hersh, 52, a psychotherapist from Portsmouth, said she<br />can no longer vote for Trump after the Khan controversy.<br /><br />"He shouldn't have taken it personally," said Hersh, whose husband<br />is a former Navy doctor. "Coming from a military community, that was<br />just (too much)."<br /><br />But voting for Clinton is not an option for Hersh. She said she has<br />too many concerns about the economy, which include government spending<br />on entitlement programs, to cast her ballot for the Democratic nominee.<br /><br />"I would have voted for him a couple weeks ago — not happily, but I<br />would have," Hersh said of Trump. "I've never not voted. But that's<br />something that's on the table."<br />====<br /><br /><br />Why em em vee?<br />jimfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04975754342950063440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post-9260666944523264262016-08-06T19:10:01.211-07:002016-08-06T19:10:01.211-07:00http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/stasi-dic...http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/stasi-dictator-donald-trump-crazy-article-1.2736353<br />-------------<br />Dictator Donald Trump has gone crazy, and we’re crazy for allowing him to get so far<br />Linda Stasi<br />NEW YORK DAILY NEWS<br />Wednesday, August 3, 2016<br /><br />Is Donald Trump crazy? No, I mean really crazy. Not as in<br />“what-a-fun-crazy-guy-he-is” crazy, but as in<br />“he’s-got-a-classified-mental-disorder” crazy? . . .<br /><br />So how, if he’s nuts, did he get this far? It’s so simple<br />it’s crazy. He figured out that the most-ignored group for<br />pols is the legions of hateful, white bigots who shamelessly<br />spew this stuff publicly. But what even Donald didn’t count<br />on were all those secret hateful, white bigots who disguise<br />themselves as liberals but will vote Trump in the end.<br /><br />A hairdresser pal just told me he can’t even count the number<br />of white guys who’ve sat in his chair and told him that<br />they’re voting for Donald. But then they always add,<br />“But don’t you dare tell my wife.” How crazy is that?<br />====<br /><br /><br />Only the hairdresser knows for sure. ;->jimfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04975754342950063440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post-21687482653474561402016-08-06T17:30:30.427-07:002016-08-06T17:30:30.427-07:00I am going to make what has historically been a co...I am going to make what has historically been a conservative suggestion that a return to character discourse may be more useful than disease discourse, at any rate among non-professionals. I do not intend to censor or police such discourse here, however, in part because I think I still indulge in it myself and would rather have it exposed and disagreed with so I can understand it better and address its limitations and think through better alternatives (assuming they exist). I think there is surely space to talk about narcissism as a cards-on-the-table moralist rather than as someone who plays a clinician on the internet.Dale Carricohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02811055279887722298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post-9111836634477040272016-08-06T16:05:34.514-07:002016-08-06T16:05:34.514-07:00> [N]obody diagnosing Trump to disqualify him h...> [N]obody diagnosing Trump to disqualify him has, as far as I can see,<br />> both the qualifications and the therapeutic context to be doing so.<br /><br />That is, of course, technically quite true. There are several reasons<br />for this:<br /><br />1. The fact that people with so-called "Cluster B" personality<br />disorders typically do not seek professional diagnosis.<br />They have "alloplastic defenses" -- "I'm fine -- it's the **rest**<br />of the world that's fucked up."<br /><br />2. Real psychiatrists are forbidden to "diagnose" a public<br />figure, because:<br /><br />2a. If the person were a patient, it would be a violation of<br />professional ethics (at the very least) to reveal the<br />diagnosis to a third party, and<br /><br />2b. If the person isn't a patient, it's a violation<br />of the so-called "Goldwater Rule", also a standard of<br />professional ethics, for a psychiatrist to<br />talk about a public figure in that way (which apparently hasn't<br />stopped a few from doing so in any case, with Trump).<br /><br />So insisting that anybody providing such a diagnosis<br />have "both the qualifications and the therapeutic context"<br />is a Catch 22.<br /><br />This leaves the "amateur" psychiatrists. Should they keep<br />their mouths shut? Look, I know that psychiatric-sounding<br />diagnoses **could** be used to harass and oppress people who are<br />unpopular for one reason or another (and **have** been so used,<br />on a very large scale, in the past -- as in the old Soviet Union, to<br />suppress dissidents and justify locking them up in mental hospitals;<br />though in that case it was indeed professionals colluding<br />with a repressive regime). I've seen _Suddenly Last Summer_ ;-><br /><br />But do I think talk about "narcissists", "psychopaths" and "sociopaths"<br />is too fraught with the potential for abuse to be kept out of<br />the ears of the unwashed public? On balance, I'd have to say<br />no (I've also seen _The Bad Seed_ ;-> ).<br /><br />Look, it's possible that somebody like Sam Vaknin (a diagnosed<br />victim of Narcissistic Personality Disorder himself, or so he<br />claims, but strictly an autodidact -- though apparently a<br />well-read one indeed -- when it comes to psychiatry) is<br />merely getting off by stirring up mischief and paranoia among<br />his readers and listeners. You'd have to decide that for yourself.<br />But I don't think so.<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITAR_CS1_L4<br />Introducing this Channel: Narcissists, Psychopaths, Abuse<br /><br />In any case, the toothpaste is out of the tube. Fifteen years ago,<br />there was **very** little information publicly available (even<br />on the Web) about the so-called Cluster B personality disorders,<br />including Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Borderline Personality<br />Disorder. This is majorly no longer the case! Vaknin himself<br />has deplored some of this:<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpzNLVLXHt0<br />Trump, Clinton - Narcissists? "Experts" Spew NONSENSE!<br /><br />You are, of course, entitled to police such discourse on your<br />own blog. I know that I myself have stretched the limits of your<br />tolerance in the past by bring up NPD and/or Autistic Spectrum<br />Disorder in discussions about the transhumanist community, and<br />even particular figures in that community, on this blog. ;->jimfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04975754342950063440noreply@blogger.com