Using Technology to Deepen Democracy, Using Democracy to Ensure Technology Benefits Us All

Sunday, November 04, 2007

"Sorry Is Just Too Late"



More And Better Democrats.

No More Dead Weight Dems.

Peer-to-Peer Democracy is on the Move.

6 comments:

Anonymous said...

"Peer-to-Peer Democracy is on the Move."
What's particularly Peer-to-Peer about this? I could see 'better Iraq policy on the move,' but increasing the influence of more ideological primary voters relative to those who vote in the general election isn't obviously more democratic. Were the conservative primary campaigns to unseat pro-choice and relatively independent Republicans like Arlen Specter who were popular with the electorate as a whole (even if not with more conservative Republican primary voters) 'Peer-to-Peer Democracy on the Move,' or something else?

Dale Carrico said...

Donna Edwards is a netroots-supported primary challenger to a Machine Dem incumbent. I think p2p-democracy will re-invigorate and re-democratize a primary process that has become an elitist selection process for professional politicians, and I think "more ideological voter" might be better described as "higher-information voter," where that information, too, is arising in p2p formations rather than broadcast mass-mediated formations.

As for comparable results among conservatives -- certainly p2p-driven primary challenges replacing moderate Republicans (so-called) with actual rampaging reactionaries more in line with the right wing base would definitely be p2p democracy on the move in my view (online driven McCain enthusiasm predated Dean enthusiasm as an indication of the power of online organizing for those of us who were paying attention to these things in the Long Long Ago). It would also have the lovely result of even more rapidly and permanently marginalizing Movement Republican wingnuttery by exposing it to all (a lovely result not only because more progressives would win to my delight but also because it would surely force a reorganization of conservatism into something more like sanity).

Anonymous said...

"Donna Edwards is a netroots-supported primary challenger to a Machine Dem incumbent."
OK.

"I think "more ideological voter" might be better described as "higher-information voter," where that information, too, is arising in p2p formations rather than broadcast mass-mediated formations."
More ideological voters have more information, but they use it in a biased way. What do you think of having juries drawn randomly from the population (possibly with some sort of civics test to get a more informed subset) and given several months to study the candidates and issues elect legislatures and executives?


"It would also have the lovely result of even more rapidly and permanently marginalizing Movement Republican wingnuttery by exposing it to all (a lovely result not only because more progressives would win to my delight but also because it would surely force a reorganization of conservatism into something more like sanity)."
Peer-to-Peer activism on immigration has stymied the elite consensus on legalization and increased openness. I'm not so sure that a reorganization of conservatism would be for the good. What if the Republicans take a populist line that combines economic populism (some good, some destructive) with nativism and theocracy and increase their popularity enough to hold on to power?

Dale Carrico said...

What do you think of having juries drawn randomly from the population (possibly with some sort of civics test to get a more informed subset) and given several months to study the candidates and issues elect legislatures and executives?

p2p disruption is actually happening, that's what I like about it -- this isn't about my implementation of an ideal p2p eidos, but a matter of an opportunistic appropriation of disruption to democratizing ends.

What if the Republicans take a populist line that combines economic populism (some good, some destructive) with nativism and theocracy and increase their popularity enough to hold on to power?

Genuine economic populism? We'll cross that bridge if we come to it (doubt it). Movement conservatism is so close to straight up authoritarianism at this point that almost any reorganization would be to the good at this point. I can't tell you how much I wish that weren't my view of things.

Anonymous said...

"p2p disruption is actually happening, that's what I like about it -- this isn't about my implementation of an ideal p2p eidos, but a matter of an opportunistic appropriation of disruption to democratizing ends."
Citizens' Assemblies, or policy juries, are also actually happening. In Canada they have now been used in multiple provinces to draw up electoral reforms to put to the voters in referenda, as a mechanism to bypass the vested interests of incumbent politicians.

Dale Carrico said...

Citizens' Assemblies, or policy juries, are also actually happening.

Cool!

I also hear there are interesting citizen juries in Europe providing feedback for science policy, r & d budgetary priorities, etc.