tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post5213462182663215380..comments2023-11-22T01:14:54.298-08:00Comments on amor mundi: The Essential Continuity and Co-Dependency of Supernative and Superlative Futurisms, of Biocons and Robot CultistsDale Carricohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02811055279887722298noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post-39829393665174162772010-05-25T11:35:10.683-07:002010-05-25T11:35:10.683-07:00We should all try to think of a nice acronym for M...We should all try to think of a nice acronym for Michael's Robot Cult Luddite Outreach Initiative.Dale Carricohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02811055279887722298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post-29777001997589607942010-05-25T01:12:33.306-07:002010-05-25T01:12:33.306-07:00George, the reasons you cite are exactly why I sto...George, the reasons you cite are exactly why I stopped using the term "Luddite" myself. The last time I used it appears to have been in 2007.Michael Anissimovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06217926458888484768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post-67311239321239432842010-05-22T07:53:18.078-07:002010-05-22T07:53:18.078-07:00Me too. Many of the other panels sound even more a...Me too. Many of the other panels sound even more alluring, what a great conference.Dale Carricohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02811055279887722298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post-14534978210039148582010-05-22T02:43:49.204-07:002010-05-22T02:43:49.204-07:00I would love to have seen the session on "Gee...I would love to have seen the session on "Geek Cosmologies" <a href="http://sca.culanth.org/meetings/sca/2010/program.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>.Mitchellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10768655514143252049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post-79285373609151215202010-05-20T11:00:12.928-07:002010-05-20T11:00:12.928-07:00Hi, George. I regularly point out here that the hi...Hi, George. I regularly point out here that the historical luddites were protesting the anti-social deployment of a particular technology rather than protesting "technology in general." <br /><br />Had the luddites been trained in the use of the new technologies (or other useful comparably remunerative employment) or, even better, also had been provided an equity stake in their use, no doubt the heartbreaking struggle of anti-social industrialization to which they have given their name could have taken on a very different aspect, and to the benefit of all. <br /><br />Quite apart from the fact that there is no available sense in which one can coherently protest "technology in general" and so it doesn't make much sense to attribute such a sentiment to the luddites as a conceptual matter, there are also the simple facts to consider that, one, the luddites used appropriate technologies themselves in creative ways, and two, the luddites diagnosed the catastrophic injustice of their personal prospects with uncanny accuracy (which one would think would have some bearing on the use of their movement's moniker as a term of ridicule).<br /><br />As you say, though, I think the career of the term in polemical discourse has gone too far to "take it back." The good news is that while the pejorative freighting of the term is likely inextricable, it still provides occasions like our own exchange for teachable moments about the history and possibilities of democratizing technodevelopmental social struggle.Dale Carricohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02811055279887722298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post-56594053763408220722010-05-20T07:25:02.093-07:002010-05-20T07:25:02.093-07:00It is probably too late to take back the word &quo...It is probably too late to take back the word "luddite". But I would like to register my opposition to the use of the term as a pejorative for anti-technologist. <br /><br />The original Luddites from 200 years ago used a form of technology called a handloom. They were skilled artisans with textiles, another form of technology. It is not clear to me if people who use the term "luddite" as an epithet really understand this. <br /><br />It is also unclear if this cartoon "luddism" is supposed to mean opposition to molecular technologies, or industrial technologies, or agrarian technologies, or neolithic technologies. I guess these kinds of scare-words don't require precise definition, since they are not about facts but about in-group and out-group delineations.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07276646669323353744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post-50467716950393242322010-05-19T11:28:10.780-07:002010-05-19T11:28:10.780-07:00“People who count their chickens before they are h...“People who count their chickens before they are hatched act very wisely, because chickens run about so absurdly that it is impossible to count them accurately” -- Oscar WildeDale Carricohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02811055279887722298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post-61947599119592503672010-05-19T11:19:46.472-07:002010-05-19T11:19:46.472-07:00Thank you for the terrific words and the encourage...Thank you for the terrific words and the encouragement, guys -- just don't hatch(et) your counts before they chicken!<br /><br />More seriously, I think transhumorism needs to be seen in the larger context that Dale discusses: namely, the tendency to try "passing" sciency terms and concepts as real science, thereby depriving both science and science fiction of pith and gusto.Athena Andreadishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07650180659001228746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post-51600183468123861042010-05-19T08:43:04.148-07:002010-05-19T08:43:04.148-07:00Athena's critique will have more resonance wit...<i>Athena's critique will have more resonance with people interested in transhumanism but who haven't drunk the kool-aid yet</i><br /><br />I certainly hope so.Dale Carricohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02811055279887722298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post-40238687804887022602010-05-19T06:09:03.702-07:002010-05-19T06:09:03.702-07:00Carrico: "RadicalCoolDude" enthuses that...<b>Carrico</b>: <i>"RadicalCoolDude" enthuses that Athena could become the "go-to Robot Cultism skeptic," and I couldn't agree more. Athena's is a credible, critical, accessible, poetic voice of sense that could do a world of good against the deranging hyperbole, junk-science, and anti-democratizing authoritarianism of the media-friendly, incumbent-friendly frames and formulations of superlative futurology.</i><br /><br />Well said. :)<br /><br /><b>Carrico</b>: <i>Now, as someone who has been accused of being a transhumanist-libertechian-technophile by various bioconservatives and a bioconservative-luddite-deathist by various Robot Cultists I am here to tell you that there is little one can do to evade such charges.</i><br /><br />Having followed your debates with transhumanists and bioconservatives for a while now, I am fully aware that nothing you say will prevent the fanatics among them to lie to themselves and to others in order to ignore the truth of your critique.<br /><br />However, I still think Athena's critique will have more resonance with people interested in transhumanism but who haven't drunk the kool-aid yet if she makes it a habit of criticizing transhumanism and bioconservatism at the same time...RadicalCoolDudehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06746981198102702164noreply@blogger.com