tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post3369641288218875746..comments2023-11-22T01:14:54.298-08:00Comments on amor mundi: Pluralism, Bad Faith, and Being ReasonableDale Carricohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02811055279887722298noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post-54883478305796186372009-02-25T20:03:00.000-08:002009-02-25T20:03:00.000-08:00Fascinating read, Jim. While I can't relate to Lew...Fascinating read, Jim. While I can't relate to Lewis' theological concerns toward immortality (for much the same reasons I can't relate to H++'s investments into such and such futurologia), I think he does point to the more interesting questions of "who" exactly would be preserved, under whose criteria, etc. in the event of radical techniques for life-preservation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post-10691680155159206632009-02-24T14:17:00.000-08:002009-02-24T14:17:00.000-08:00It seems to me that 1) focusing on future technolo...It seems to me that 1) focusing on future technology, and 2) focusing on people who focus on future technology, is all the less important at a time when we are about to take (perhaps) the largest gamble in history, larger than Hitler invading France and Poland, and possibly more destructive.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post-6950570824318461872009-02-23T15:37:00.000-08:002009-02-23T15:37:00.000-08:00> My own strong sense if I may say so is that s...> My own strong sense if I may say so is that superlativity<BR/>> arises for many out of passions very closely connected with<BR/>> the ones one also finds among many people who strongly<BR/>> ascribe to fundamentalist modes of religiosity.<BR/>> Among these are the fear of death, [and] anxieties about the<BR/>> contingencies of human existence. . .<BR/><BR/>From an e-mail exchange I had with none other than M. Anissimov<BR/>back in the spring of 2007:<BR/><BR/>Subject: Immortalized by Psych Today<BR/><BR/>> If you have a chance, pick up this month’s issue<BR/>> of Psychology Today - I’m in it.<BR/><BR/>Indeed. On the way home last night I stopped at a<BR/>newsstand in the Port Authority bus terminal, and there<BR/>was the April issue of _Psychology Today_, and my<BR/>eye caught on that caption "Visionary or Nut? In Pursuit<BR/>of Lost Causes". I had a premonition who might be mentioned<BR/>inside. The table of contents listed the relevant article<BR/>as "The Boy Who Wants to Live Forever...", and the premonition<BR/>grew stronger. Finally, facing the indicated<BR/>page, was a full-page photo of an unidentified, but<BR/>familiar-looking, guy on a California beach wearing a pair of<BR/>oversized red boxing gloves. I didn't immediately see<BR/>the setting as a beach; my first thought was "parking lot<BR/>doused with soapy water", but another participant in the<BR/>salon de cerveau replied "It's a beach, you moron."<BR/><BR/>I didn't really need to see the smaller photo in the<BR/>interior giving the name.<BR/><BR/>. . .<BR/><BR/>> Out of all the "underdogs" profiled I think my "lost cause" looks the<BR/>> least "lost", so hopefully it will encourage at least a few dozen<BR/>> people to think more seriously about immortality... also, sometimes<BR/>> beliefs are formed from "snippets" - if you see 3 stories on<BR/>> immortality in a year, good or bad, it can cause the subject to "enter<BR/>> into your radar", y'know.<BR/><BR/>You know, very few people, once they reach a certain age,<BR/>do not think about human mortality and/or the possibility<BR/>of immortality in one form or another. Impending age and<BR/>death is an inescapable backdrop to human existence.<BR/><BR/>I've never believed in any of the religious dogmas about<BR/>immortal souls, Heaven, Hell, reincarnation, and so on. But<BR/>I can remember, when I was 11 going on 12 (in the spring<BR/>of 1964), after having read the paperback edition of<BR/>Arthur C. Clarke's _Profiles of the Future_ -- which contains<BR/>a "timeline of the future" placing the achievement of<BR/>physical immortality in the year 2100 -- wondering if interim<BR/>medical advances would enable **me** to reach that magic<BR/>year -- I remember distinctly thinking about this while<BR/>standing in front of the bathroom sink one Saturday morning<BR/>more than 40 years ago. I also remember the cloud of<BR/>emotion in which the thoughts were embedded: the hope<BR/>beyond hope that here was a **plausible**, "scientific"<BR/>voice suggesting that I might escape from death -- and this<BR/>was at the age of 11! I also got into a bit of trouble<BR/>that spring, when the school year was winding down,<BR/>by giving a book report on _Profiles_ to my sixth-grade<BR/>class. When I mentioned Clarke's views on the prospect<BR/>of immortality, the teacher, Mrs. Withrow, replied "that's<BR/>nonsense!" with some heat. I experienced that same thrill<BR/>of excitement (could it be true?) when I read Hans Moravec's<BR/>_Mind Children_ in 1988, when I came across Vinge's<BR/>views about the Singularity in _Across Realtime_ in the early<BR/>90's, when I came across Eliezer's _Staring into the Singularity_<BR/>in 1997, and when I read Kurzweil's book in 1999 (and even<BR/>more, when I saw his slideshow on the Singularity at PC Expo<BR/>in the Jacob Javits center in New York in 2000).<BR/><BR/>That frisson of -- lust, you might call it -- is something that<BR/>**must** be kept at arm's length in order to think rationally<BR/>about these things, IMO. I'm afraid too many Transhumanists,<BR/>Extropians, and Singularitarians simply surrender to that<BR/>excitement on the flimsiest of seemingly-scientific pretexts,<BR/>and become little more than true believers in an apocalyptic<BR/>and/or transcendentalist quasi-religion.<BR/><BR/>Ah, well. People need very little **convincing** if you<BR/>give them the slightest pretext to think that immortality,<BR/>in some form or other, might be within their grasp. And all<BR/>the research that's being directly or indirectly focussed<BR/>on cancer, Alzheimer's disease, cardiovascular disease,<BR/>arthritis, and so on and so on is, at least indirectly,<BR/>focussed on the problem of delaying or ameliorating human<BR/>senescence. Believe me -- I feel my age in my knees every<BR/>day of my life!<BR/><BR/>Will immortality, or extended longevity (which isn't **exactly**<BR/>the same thing, you know), happen if it's technologically<BR/>possible (and if we don't succumb to a mass extinction in<BR/>the meantime)? Of course it will! For those who can afford<BR/>it (or command it), even if not for everybody. People are scared<BR/>shitless of dying -- and even more than of death in the abstract, of<BR/>being diagnosed tomorrow with cancer, or macular degeneration,<BR/>or hearing loss, or osteoporosis, or arthritis, or of<BR/>noticing the first subtle signs of Mild Cognitive Impairment.<BR/>Further, when you reach middle age, the years seem to flash<BR/>by faster and faster, and the number you have left (even<BR/>barring dying early of something like cancer) starts<BR/>to diminish at an alarming rate. It's like driving a car<BR/>at 60 mph, with the top down and the radio blaring merrily<BR/>away, toward a brick wall!<BR/><BR/>Well. End of rant. ;-><BR/><BR/><BR/>--------------------------------------------------------------<BR/>"There is no such thing as a natural death. Nothing that happens to man<BR/>is ever natural... All men must die. And for every man his death is an<BR/>accident, and even if he knows it, he can sense to it an unjustifiable<BR/>violation"<BR/><BR/>You may agree with the words or not, but they are the keyspring of<BR/>_The Lord of the Rings_.<BR/>--------------------------------------------------------------<BR/>- J. R. R. Tolkien, quoting Simone de Beauvoir in a BBC interview<BR/><BR/><BR/>--------------------------------------------------------------<BR/>The fact that we can die, that we can be<BR/>ill at all, is what perplexes us; the fact<BR/>that we now for a moment live and are well<BR/>is irrelevant to that perplexity. We need<BR/>a life not correlated with death, a health<BR/>not liable to illness, a kind of good that<BR/>will not perish, a good in fact that flies<BR/>beyond the Goods of nature...<BR/><BR/>This sadness lies at the heart of every<BR/>merely positivistic, agnostic, or naturalistic<BR/>scheme of philosophy. Let sanguine<BR/>healthy-mindedness do its best with its<BR/>strange power of living in the moment and<BR/>ignoring and forgetting, still the evil<BR/>background is really there to be thought<BR/>of, and the skull will grin in at the banquet.<BR/>In the practical life of the individual,<BR/>we know how his whole gloom or glee about<BR/>any present fact depends on the remoter<BR/>schemes and hopes with which it stands<BR/>related. Its significance and framing<BR/>give it the chief part of its value. Let<BR/>it be known to lead nowhere, and however<BR/>agreeable it may be in its immediacy,<BR/>its glow and gilding vanish...<BR/><BR/>The lustre of the present hour is always<BR/>borrowed from the background of possibilities<BR/>it goes with. Let our common experiences<BR/>be enveloped in an eternal moral order; let<BR/>our suffering have an immortal significance;<BR/>let Heaven smile upon the earth, and deities<BR/>pay their visits; let faith and hope be<BR/>the atmosphere which man breathes in; -- and<BR/>his days pass by with zest; they stir with<BR/>prospects, they thrill with remoter values.<BR/>Place round them on the contrary the<BR/>curdling cold and gloom and absence of all<BR/>permanent meaning which for pure naturalism<BR/>and the popular science evolutionism of our<BR/>time are all that is visible ultimately,<BR/>and the thrill stops short, or turns rather<BR/>to anxious trembling.<BR/><BR/>For naturalism, fed on recent cosmological<BR/>speculations, mankind is in a position<BR/>similar to that of a set of people living<BR/>on a frozen lake, surrounded by cliffs over<BR/>which there is no escape, yet knowing that<BR/>little by little the ice is melting, and<BR/>the inevitable day drawing near when the<BR/>last film of it will disappear, and to be<BR/>drowned ignominiously will be the human<BR/>creature's portion. The merrier the skating,<BR/>the warmer and more sparkling the sun by<BR/>day, and the ruddier the bonfires at night,<BR/>the more poignant the sadness with which<BR/>one must take in the meaning of the total<BR/>situation.<BR/>--------------------------------------------------------------<BR/>William James, _The Varieties of Religious Experience_,<BR/>Lectures VI and VII "The Sick Soul"<BR/><BR/><BR/>--------------------------------------------------------------<BR/>"'Thus far, then, I perceive that the great difference between<BR/>Elves and Men is in the speed of the end. In this only.<BR/>For if you deem that for the Eldar there is no death<BR/>ineluctable, you err.<BR/><BR/>'Now none of us know, though the Valar may know, the future<BR/>of Arda, or how long it is ordained to endure. But it<BR/>will not endure for ever. It was made by Eru, but He is<BR/>not in it. The One only has no limits. Arda, and<BR/>Ea itself, must therefore be bounded. You see us,<BR/>the Eldar, still in the first ages of our being, and the<BR/>end is far off. As maybe among you death may seem to a young<BR/>man in his strength; save that we have long years of life<BR/>and thought already behind us. But the end will come. That<BR/>we all know. And then we must die; we must perish utterly,<BR/>it seems, for we belong to Arda (in hroa [body] and fea [soul]).<BR/>And beyond that what? "The going out to no return," as you<BR/>say; "the uttermost end, the irremediable loss"?<BR/><BR/>...<BR/><BR/>'And yet at least ours is slow-footed, you would say?' said<BR/>Finrod. 'True. But it is not clear that a foreseen doom<BR/>long delayed is in all ways a lighter burden than one that<BR/>comes soon'"<BR/>--------------------------------------------------------------<BR/>- J. R. R. Tolkien, "Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth",<BR/> in _Morgoth's Ring_, Vol. 10 of _The History of Middle-earth_<BR/><BR/><BR/>--------------------------------------------------------------<BR/>"What had seemed to us at first the irresistible march of<BR/>god-like world-spirits, with all the resources of the universe<BR/>in their hands and all eternity before them, was now<BR/>gradually revealed in very different guise. The great advance<BR/>in mental calibre, and the attainment of communal mentality<BR/>throughout the cosmos, had brought a change in the experience<BR/>of time. The temporal reach of the mind had been very<BR/>greatly extended. The awakened worlds experienced an aeon<BR/>as a mere crowded day. They were aware of time's passage<BR/>as a man in a canoe might have cognizance of a river which in<BR/>its upper reaches is sluggish but subsequently breaks into<BR/>rapids and becomes swifter and swifter, till, at no great<BR/>distance ahead, it must plunge in a final cataract down<BR/>to the sea... Comparing the little respite that remained with<BR/>the great work which they passionately desired to accomplish,<BR/>namely the full awakening of the cosmical spirit, they saw<BR/>that at best there was no time to spare, and that, more<BR/>probably, it was already too late to accomplish the task...<BR/><BR/>The sense of the fated incompleteness of all creatures and<BR/>of all their achievements gave... a charm, a sanctity,<BR/>as of some short-lived and delicate flower."<BR/><BR/>-- Olaf Stapledon, _Star Maker_<BR/> Chapter X, "A Vision of the Galaxy"<BR/>--------------------------------------------------------------<BR/><BR/><BR/>--------------------------------------------------------------<BR/>"Tell me, stranger: life is -- why therefore should not life be<BR/>lengthened for a while? What are ten or twenty or fifty thousand years<BR/>in the history of life? ... There is naught that is wonderful about the<BR/>matter... Life is wonderful, ay, but that it should be a little<BR/>lengthened is not wonderful. Nature hath her animating spirit as well<BR/>as man, who is Nature's child, and he who can find that spirit, and let<BR/>it breathe upon him, shall live with her life. He shall not live<BR/>eternally, for Nature is not eternal; and she herself must die, even as<BR/>the nature of the moon has died... But when shall she die? Not yet, I<BR/>ween, and while she lives, so shall he who hath all her secret live with<BR/>her."<BR/>--------------------------------------------------------------<BR/>- Ayesha, She-who-must-be-obeyed, to L. Horace Holly<BR/>in H. Rider Haggard's _She_<BR/><BR/><BR/>--------------------------------------------------------------<BR/>"The story of Ayesha [in H. Rider Haggard's _She_]<BR/>is not an escape, but it is about escape;<BR/>about an attempt at the great escape,<BR/>daringly made and terribly frustrated.<BR/>Its closest relative, perhaps its child, is Morris's<BR/>_Well at the World's End_, which came ten years<BR/>later. Both stories externalise the same<BR/>psychological forces; our irreconcilable reluctance<BR/>to die, our craving for an immortality in the flesh,<BR/>our empirical knowledge that this is impossible,<BR/>our intermittent awareness that it is not even<BR/>really desirable, and (octaves deeper than all<BR/>these) a very primitive feeling that the attempt,<BR/>if it could be made, would be unlawful and would<BR/>call down the vengeance of the gods. In both<BR/>books the wild, transporting, and (we feel)<BR/>forbidden hope is aroused. When fruition seems<BR/>almost in sight, horrifying disaster shatters our<BR/>dream. . ."<BR/>--------------------------------------------------------------<BR/>C. S. Lewis, _On Stories (And Other Essays On Literature)_,<BR/>"The Mythopoeic Gift of Rider Haggard", pp. 98-100<BR/><BR/><BR/>--------------------------------------------------------------<BR/>"Death . . . is a safety-device because, once Man<BR/>has fallen, natural immortality would be the one utterly<BR/>hopeless destiny for him. Aided to the surrender<BR/>that he must make by no external necessity of<BR/>Death, free (if you call it freedom) to rivet faster<BR/>and faster about himself through unending centuries<BR/>the chains of his own pride and lust and of the<BR/>nightmare civilizations which these build up in<BR/>ever-increasing power and complication, he<BR/>would progress from being merely a fallen man<BR/>to being a fiend, possibly beyond all modes of<BR/>redemption."<BR/>--------------------------------------------------------------<BR/>C. S. Lewis, _Miracles_,<BR/>Chapter 14 "The Grand Miracle", p. 210<BR/><BR/><BR/>--------------------------------------------------------------<BR/>"The time was ripe. From the point<BR/>of view which is accepted in Hell, the whole<BR/>history of our Earth had led up to this moment.<BR/>There was now at last a real chance for fallen Man<BR/>to shake off that limitation of his powers which mercy<BR/>had imposed upon him as a protection from the full<BR/>results of his fall. If this succeeded, Hell would be<BR/>at last incarnate. Bad men, while still in the body,<BR/>still crawling on this little globe, would enter that state<BR/>which, heretofore, they had entered only after<BR/>death, would have the diuturnity and power of evil<BR/>spirits. Nature, all over the globe of Tellus, would<BR/>become their slave; and of that dominion no end,<BR/>before the end of time itself, could be certainly<BR/>foreseen."<BR/>--------------------------------------------------------------<BR/>C. S. Lewis, _That Hideous Strength_, p. 203<BR/><BR/><BR/>Is Lewis right? Who knows! Nevertheless, the experiment<BR/>**will** be tried, if it's possible.jimfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04975754342950063440noreply@blogger.com