tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post1479439609608541569..comments2023-11-22T01:14:54.298-08:00Comments on amor mundi: The Conversation Resumes!Dale Carricohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02811055279887722298noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post-71720702285068272222007-07-26T22:44:00.000-07:002007-07-26T22:44:00.000-07:00Personaly I suspect the friendly "Enthusiastic Ath...<I>Personaly I suspect the friendly "Enthusiastic Athiest" stance of Douglas Adams will win out over the Dawkins approach.</I><BR/><BR/>Me, too. And for good reason.Dale Carricohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02811055279887722298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post-75620520767702217912007-07-26T20:08:00.000-07:002007-07-26T20:08:00.000-07:00People forget that even amongst the religious cool...People forget that even amongst the religious cooler heads can prevail. Take a look at what happened in Kansas during the Intelligent Design fracas. Evolutionary Theory is obviously not popular in that state but that didn't stop voters from turfing out ID proponents. <BR/><BR/>Most athiest I speak to think Dawkins takes too hard a line. We like to potshots at religion at the moment because we're angry at what's happening but in the long I suspect that'll subside.<BR/><BR/>Personaly I suspect the friendly "Enthusiastic Athiest" stance of Douglas Adams will win out over the Dawkins approach. A good natured reasonableness and a sense of humour is the best way to promote athiesm in the long run.jollyspaniardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10999141103840765243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post-25200584171208240512007-07-24T20:58:00.000-07:002007-07-24T20:58:00.000-07:00There's a repeated bitI think I know the part you ...<I>There's a repeated bit</I><BR/><BR/>I think I know the part you are mentioning. I was trying by echoing that phrase to emphasize an analogy: that the insight that sometimes arises from seeing past the apparent absurdity of things that get called faith is like the insight that sometimes arises from seeing past the apparent absurdity of things that get called relativism. Which is not at all the same thing as suggesting that everything that passes for faith or for relativism looks to me like insight. I offer up no blanket reassurances on that score from either direction.Dale Carricohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02811055279887722298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post-38877717419105458042007-07-24T18:33:00.000-07:002007-07-24T18:33:00.000-07:00Good view, and lucidly points...although now that ...Good view, and lucidly points...although now that I go to comment on such I realize I've only read a small sliver of the view...<BR/> <BR/>There's a repeated bit in an earlier paragraph containing this.."..myself to extraordinary insights..", in one of the earlier paragraphs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post-82633415369429913222007-07-24T16:42:00.000-07:002007-07-24T16:42:00.000-07:00Lordy. I just saw this. I will have to get back...Lordy. I just saw this. I will have to get back to you. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post-29617418497229250112007-07-23T07:06:00.000-07:002007-07-23T07:06:00.000-07:00> One can almost always find ways to reason with> ...> One can almost always find ways to reason with<BR/>> a being one recognizes as a language user. . .<BR/>> [O]ne need not demand of a language user<BR/>> that they be reasonable enough to identify with to<BR/>> recognize them as reasonable enough to reason with.<BR/><BR/>Of course, that's only true if one has the means to<BR/>**force** them to reason with you. If they've<BR/>got the upper hand, it's more reasonable to expect<BR/>them to call the police and have you thrown out<BR/>of the building!<BR/><BR/>"In a letter just before arriving in Fort Lauderdale, I<BR/>told [Jim] Kennedy that I would attend his Reclaiming Conference<BR/>and that I would appreciate meeting him just long enough<BR/>to hand him the fifty-page case we had produced to demonstrate<BR/>the half-truth, hyperbole, and lies he was telling about<BR/>homosexuals and, I hoped, time to respond to the lies with<BR/>a summary of the latest scientific, psychological, historic,<BR/>pastoral, and biblical evidence that homosexuality is<BR/>neither sickness nor sin but another of God's mysterious<BR/>gifts.<BR/><BR/>Kennedy had responded with a personal letter politely refusing<BR/>my request, saying that he could not possibly spend time<BR/>with me during the conference. During that rather awkward<BR/>confrontation with security guards upon our arrival, one<BR/>of Kennedy's associates reminded us again that there was<BR/>no chance of meeting with Kennedy.<BR/><BR/>The keynote speaker that first day was Ralph Reed, then<BR/>executive director of Pat Robertson's Christian Coalition.<BR/>Like every fundamentalist on the program, Ralph spiced up<BR/>his speech with apocalyptic warnings about abortion and<BR/>homosexuality. When the standing ovation ended and the<BR/>delegates headed for lunch, Nancy and I slipped into<BR/>Ralph's entourage and walked with them into the pressroom,<BR/>where camera crews and print reporters waited to interview<BR/>this powerful and persuasive young man.<BR/><BR/>Toward the close of the press conference, I stood quietly<BR/>at the front of the room hoping for a chance to confront<BR/>Ralph's misinformation about gay and lesbian Americans.<BR/>But before I could speak, Ralph's handlers led him and his<BR/>entourage out the door. I joined the camera crews as<BR/>they headed into the lobby, hoping for one more chance to<BR/>confront Ralph Reed's fundamentalist Christian views.<BR/>At that moment, in the crowded lobby of the Fort Lauderdale<BR/>Convention Center, with the press corps looking on,<BR/>Ralph walked up to me, his hand outstretched, a<BR/>genuine smile lighting up his boyish face.<BR/><BR/>'Mel,' he said, 'I've been hoping to meet you since you<BR/>were arrested at CBN trying to see Pat.'<BR/><BR/>Surprised that he had even noticed me, I mumbled some<BR/>pleasantry in return.<BR/><BR/>'I wanted to visit you during your twenty-one days in jail,'<BR/>he said, 'but the time just got away from me. I'm sorry.'<BR/><BR/>I thanked him for his concern and stood dumbfounded as<BR/>Ralph's handlers led him away. At that very moment, the same<BR/>Kennedy staffer who had reminded me that there would be<BR/>no meeting with Reverend Kennedy during the conference<BR/>approached at double time, a group of security personnel<BR/>in his wake.<BR/><BR/>'Dr. Kennedy will see you now,' he said quietly, and surrounded<BR/>by convention security we were ushered into a room just off<BR/>the lobby and left alone to share our surprise.<BR/><BR/>After a few moments of silence, the door literally flew<BR/>open as Kennedy rushed in, followed by his aides. He walked<BR/>up to where I was still seated, put his finger in my<BR/>face, and said angrily, 'What you need, Mel White, is to<BR/>repent your sin and get right with God.'<BR/><BR/>'Hello, Jim,' I said, standing to shake his hand. 'I'm glad<BR/>we can meet again at last.'<BR/><BR/>Before I could finish that thought, Kennedy shouted once<BR/>again, 'You need to repent. There's nothing else to talk about.'<BR/><BR/>'But, Jim,' I replied, 'I have repented my sins but my<BR/>homosexuality is not a sin, but one of God's mysterious--'<BR/><BR/>'Repent, Mel White,' he interrupted.<BR/><BR/>'Jim, couldn't we spend a few minutes talking about our diff--'<BR/><BR/>'Repent,' he said again. 'You need to repent and then we<BR/>can talk.'<BR/><BR/>'I have repented, Jim,' I answered, holding up the materials<BR/>we came to present him. He refused to accept our case against<BR/>his rhetoric. 'Will you just read this--'<BR/><BR/>'Repent,' he said, and that one-word command was getting under<BR/>my skin.<BR/><BR/>'I have repented,' I responded one more time, trying not to<BR/>give way to my growing anger and frustration.<BR/><BR/>'Repent,' he said again, and I thought maybe he had lost his mind.<BR/><BR/>'Repent,' he said for the sixth or seventh time, unwilling to<BR/>enter into civil conversation. I am committed to nonviolence<BR/>of the heart, tongue, and fist as described by Martin Luther<BR/>King, Jr. But I admit my commitment was wearing thin.<BR/><BR/>'Repent,' Kennedy repeated over and over again.<BR/><BR/>'I have repented,' I replied, and back and forth it went until<BR/>my friend Nancy Lee took me by the hand, saying, 'Nothing<BR/>can be accomplished here, Mel. Let's go.'<BR/><BR/>I can still see Kennedy staring down at me with fire in his<BR/>eyes. I can still hear his one-word command: 'Repent!'<BR/>I've not seen or heard from D. James Kennedy since that<BR/>strange meeting in the Fort Lauderdale Convention Center.<BR/>It's a memory I don't cherish. Looking back, I feel<BR/>embarrassed for both of us."<BR/><BR/>from _Religion Gone Bad: The Hidden Dangers of the Christian<BR/>Right_ by Mel White, Chapter 3 "The Spoils of War:<BR/>James Dobson (the Enforcer) and D. James Kennedy (the Extremist)",<BR/>pp. 114-116jimfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04975754342950063440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5956838.post-87023796107518227402007-07-23T07:00:00.000-07:002007-07-23T07:00:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.jimfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04975754342950063440noreply@blogger.com