Using Technology to Deepen Democracy, Using Democracy to Ensure Technology Benefits Us All

Wednesday, February 15, 2012

Jim, He's Dead


Robot Cultist Hank Pellisier wants to know who the Robot God should resurrect from the dead with their techno-transcendentalizing nanobotic femtobotic soul-migration take-a-picture-pretend-it's-a-person magic (science!). It's an important question (oh, wait, it's the opposite of that).

Of course, with futurology one usually tries to get past the surreal implausibility of the premise as quickly as possible, the better to spend ninety percent of the article masturbating about how awesome magic would be if it were real. And so, within moments of stipulating robo-resurrection is on the way, worthy candidates for techno-resurrection are being proposed by Pellisier for due consideration of the Robot God.  He sees you when you're sleeping, he knows when you're awake, he knows when you've been bad or good, so be good for goodness' sake! Among the lucky duckies with whom Pellisier means to share Paradise are "honorable people" (criteria for honor to be determined later, donations gratefully accepted), "dead babies" (won't somebody please think of the children!), "victims of genocide" (we care a lot!), and so on. All Very Serious, as you see.

I can remember being a teenager trying to explain to my religious father (now a full-on fulminating Republican racist greedhead warmonger theocrat, natch) the doubts I was having that were leading me to my eventual atheism (cheerfully maintained for more than half my life now), among them the fact that I found it difficult to understand why I should reverence a god who was my ethical inferior -- since if I were God there would certainly be no Hell. I find it interesting to observe that neither can Robot Cultists when they are waxing techno-religious seem to resist morbid fantasy power-trips selecting who should be eternalized and who should be damned. Of course, the vicious and the virtuous are all of us mortal, and the measure of heaven and hell besets us on earth, in our words and works, perishable as we are.

The honorable and the dishonorable? The dead babies? The starving, the sick, the cold, the ballooning bodies on fields of war, of crime, of intolerance -- and the many who struggle with them and for them and for a better world (with little time to spare, by the way, for Very Serious Futurology)? They're all dying or dead, Hank. You are going to die, too. The Robot God is not going to scoop up all the cremated and rotten and cryonically hamburgerized futurologists and reassemble you and migrate your souls into cyberheaven for eternal holodeck sexy times.

Do you guys actually hear yourselves?

(By the way, the hilarious New Agey Ayn Raelian picture at the top of the post, you know, the bald white guy uploading his naked comic book physique -- purple 'cause he's, you know, data instead of ooky meat, despite the soft porn musculature -- don't ask -- into cyber-heaven ready to get on with the sexy times, despite being data instead of ooky meat -- don't ask -- well, that picture accompanies the Pellisier article itself, apparently non-parodically -- seriously, don't ask.)

11 comments:

jimf said...

> [He's dead, Jim.]
>
> Robot Cultist Hank Pellisier wants to know who the Robot God
> should resurrect from the dead. . . Among the lucky duckies with
> whom Pellisier means to share Paradise are "honorable people"
> (criteria for honor to be determined later, donations gratefully
> accepted), "dead babies" (won't somebody please think of the children!),
> "victims of genocide" (we care a lot!), and so on.

You mean he doesn't talk about the Other Place -- for dishonorable
people, baby killers, and perpetrators of genocide (and, no doubt,
for people who stirred up FUD against the >Hists and Singularitarians
during the delicate times when the future of Humanity -- nay, of
intelligent life in the Universe itself -- hung in the balance)?

Shall we suggest he read Iain Banks' _Surface Detail_? ;->
Some of his pals apparently have:

http://amormundi.blogspot.com/2011/07/futurological-brickbats.html
-----------------------------
I recently stumbled across some remarks on another forum
("Pull up a chair everyone! I found the good stuff!"
SolarTungsten 12/14/10, 09:04
http://www.poe-news.com/forums/sp.php?pi=1002433160 )
describing a thread on Less Wrong in which our old pal Roko Mijic
was taken to task by Eliezer Yudkowsky (the blog owner) for
revealing that "one person at SIAI" was "severely worried" about
the coming AI God punishing people for all eternity in virtual Hell
(I guess somebody must have just read Iain Banks' _Surface Detail_)
"to the point of having terrible nightmares, though ve wishes to
remain anonymous."

Or, as the POE News poster describes it, "The general idea is that
when the God-brain or whatever finally takes over, it might
decide to punish singularitians who believed in the coming new age,
but didn't devote 100% of their resources to making it happen.
Now that you know about this idea, you have to devote your life to
the singularity or suffer eternal torture at the hands of the AI
(that the AI can extend your life indefinitely is considered
to be so obvious and non-controversial that no one even bothers
mentioning it)."

Eliezer was angry with Roko for revealing this, apparently because
he thinks it might actually give the AI God (or CEV for
"Coherent Extrapolated Volition" as it's now called) reason **for
actually doing it**! ;->

Or, as EY says himself:

"You have to be really clever to come up with a genuinely dangerous
thought [or you just have to keep an eye on the New Releases
shelf of the Fantasy&SF department of your local bookstore].
I am disheartened that people can be clever enough to do that
and not clever enough to do the obvious thing and KEEP THEIR IDIOT
MOUTHS SHUT about it, because it is much more important to sound
intelligent when talking to your friends. . .

(For those who have no idea why I'm using capital letters for
something that just sounds like a random crazy idea, and worry that
it means I'm as crazy as Roko, the gist of it was that he just
did something that potentially gives superintelligences an increased
motive to do extremely evil things in an attempt to blackmail us.
It is the sort of thing you want to be EXTREMELY CONSERVATIVE
about NOT DOING.)"

In any case, according to the POE News poster, the thread was
eventually expunged from Less Wrong (though, as we all know,
it's difficult these days to completely expunge something
from the Web).

So pony up, people, if you don't want to end up in Cyber Hell!

jimf said...

> I find it interesting to observe that neither can Robot Cultists
> when they are waxing techno-religious seem to resist morbid
> fantasy power-trips selecting who should be eternalized and
> who should be damned.

http://amormundi.blogspot.com/2009/10/italian-retro-futurism-on-march.html
http://amormundi.blogspot.com/2009/02/robot-cultists-getting-too-nice-by-half.html
-------------------------
'And you think that some day we shall really find
a means of keeping the brain alive indefinitely?'

'We have begun already... The Head himself has
already survived death, and you shall speak to
him this night.' . . .

'You are frightened?' said Filostrato. 'You will get
over that... [I]f you were outside, if you were mere
canaglia you would have reason to be frightened...
It is the beginning of power. He lives forever.
The giant time is conquered...'

'It is the beginning of Man Immortal and Man
Ubiquitous,' said Straik. 'Man on the throne of the
universe. It is what all the prophecies really
meant.'

'At first, of course,' said Filostrato, 'the power will
be confined to a number -- a small number -- of
individual men. Those who are selected for
eternal life.'

'And you mean,' said Mark, 'it will then be extended
to all men?'

'No,' said Filostrato. 'I mean it will then be reduced
to one man. . . . It is not
Man who will be omnipotent, it is some one man, some
immortal man. Alcasan, our Head, is the first
sketch of it. The completed product may be someone
else. It may be you. It may be me...'

'I don't understand, I don't understand,' said Mark.

'But it is very easy,' said Filostrato. 'We have found
how to make a dead man live. He was a wise man
even in his natural life. He lives now forever; he
gets wiser. Later, we make them live better -- for
at present, one must concede, this second life
is probably not very agreeable to him who has it.
You see? Later we make it pleasant for some --
perhaps not so pleasant for others. For we can
make the dead live whether they wish it or not.
He who shall be finally king of the universe can give
this life to whom he pleases. They cannot refuse
the little present.'

'And so,' said Straik, 'the lessons you learned at
your mother's knee return. God will have power to
give eternal reward and eternal punishment.'

'God?' said Mark. 'How does He come into it?
I don't believe in God.'

'But, my friend,' said Filostrato, 'does it follow that
because there was no God in the past that there
will be no God also in the future?'

'Don't you see,' said Straik, 'that we are offering
you the unspeakable glory of being present at the
creation of God almighty? Here, in this house,
you shall meet the first sketch of the real God. It
is a man -- or a being made by man -- who will
finally ascend the throne of the universe. And rule
forever.'

-- C. S. Lewis
_That Hideous Strength_

> . . .the bald white guy uploading his naked comic book physique --
> purple 'cause he's, you know, data instead of ooky meat,
> despite the soft porn musculature. . .

Maybe he's the gay Dr. Manhattan.

erickingsley said...

It is forever amusing to me how closely these folks track good old-fashioned organized religion, from the rapture/paradise true-believers at the base, all the way to the cynical "leadership".

Chad Lott said...

I can never understand why all these robo-god drawings are bald. Isn't there going to be nano-Rogaine?

jimf said...

> can never understand why all these robo-god drawings are bald. . .

Because Future Man is bald, dontcha know? Body (and head) hair is for
apes and other lower mammals.

http://sherrychandler.com/wp-content/uploads/Olthesixthfinger.jpg

Dale Carrico said...

But there are some data points for the Robo-Rogaine caucus, as witness:

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTduFSv0FEroLvaFlqqgRH_-zQ1uPuOC4eSIhaKmI8I7v03rgfbNz4v4vrJ

jimf said...

> But there are some data points for the Robo-Rogaine caucus, as witness. . .

I didn't know Burt Reynolds was in _Barbarella_!

However, maybe Cousin It is in fact a transhuman.

http://www.fortunecity.com/bennyhills/pun/190/cousinitto3.jpg

jimf said...

erickingsley wrote:

> It is forever amusing to me how closely these folks track
> good old-fashioned organized religion, from the rapture/paradise
> true-believers at the base, all the way to the cynical "leadership".

The thing that amuses **me** -- well, bugs the hell out of me, is more
like it -- is not **just** that the discourse tracks "that old-time religion"
so closely, but that the folks who promulgate it **refuse to recognize
that it does**! They actually pretend to originality here!

News flash! Water is wet! Details at 11.


Also from
http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2012/01/a-far-green-country.html#more

> > Do you think that the Singularity is, at least in part,
> > a way for those committed to empiricism (as a creed as
> > much as a tool) to allow a little of the magical and the
> > transcendent back into their worlds?
>
> Yes, I absolutely do think that's the case. I also think
> it's the case for the actual Rapture enthusiasts--they
> want to be part of a big story, and a world without magic
> is one they quite literally cannot bear. Science, as it stands,
> is not enough. There must be Huge Personified Forces at work--and hell,
> maybe there are. But yes, I think the instinct comes from precisely
> the same place: both Singularities express a desire to see the
> world profoundly and extraordinarily altered by the magic of
> choice, be that religion or science. To enter Paradise--and be
> the one who gets to define what that means for everyone else.

jollyspaniard said...

You also see figures like the purple guy in a lot of Art Deco imagery. They tend not to be big on hair, clothes or going anywhere except up and away from the viewer.

I wonder if a lot of this is related to Thomas Aquinas's view of the mortal realm as a place that is nasty and foul and ultimately something you want to escape from via Divine Agency. Do we see many singularitarians coming from cultural backgrounds that aren't informed by the Abrahamic religions?

jimf said...

> Do. . . many singularitarians com[e] from cultural backgrounds
> [not] informed by the Abrahamic religions?

Is this an Abrahamic religion? (It's a lot like the
_Strain_ trilogy, which ends with [a character's words]
"a genuinely Old Testament event".) ;->

https://sites.google.com/site/cryonicsfactsheet/scam-8---vampires-david-styles-and-cryonics-institute
-------
[O]ther Cryoncists are Satanists also including our favourite
scammer David Styles. . .

". . .He is a member of a 'vampire' cult. . . called the
'Temple of the Vampire'. . . a pyramid scheme that ask their
members to pay them loads of money in exchange for 'teachings'
that supposedly grant them immortality. . .

Styles. . . has the rank of 'Adept',. . . the highest. He is also a member
of their 'inner council' - the Order of Prometheus. . . a
thought police in charge of silencing anybody who doesn't agree with them."

. . .

Styles is part of a Vampire Pyramid Scheme. . .
to sell cryonics. . . to Twilight fans. . .
[He] was exposed and is re-inventing himself as a transhumanist/cryonics advocate. . .
[A]t least Vyff and Best know of the Satanist connections
and even had to ask David to step down from the "board" at the Immortality Institute.

. . .

> Is there still a requirement to become involved in cryonics to join the
> vampire priesthood?"

[W]hen I was a member. . . cryonics was an absolute requirement to get
into the priesthood (3rd circle).

It was also a requirement to take the following oath (before the "undead gods"),
sign it, and send it in to the temple:

". . .I swear by my life-force and the breath that
sustains it my loyalty and obedience to Hekal Tiamat. I shall live by the
force of fang and claw. I shall forever respect the one true law. I pledge
my blood, my will, my power. I commit myself totally from this very hour.
I am of and for the body of the blood. I now only serve the great dragon god.
If this oath be ever broken by me, may I be denied immortality."

. . .

You can remain a 2nd circle forever. . . as long
as you continue paying your monthly subscription fee. . .
[Y]ou can take all the time you need to generate the required
income. . . to purchase a cryonics
contract. Through purchasing a cryonics service, you have proven that

a) you have successfully mastered the Dayside because you are able to
afford cryonics.

b) You are making a Dayside commitment to physical immortality. . .
prov[ing] you are. . . serious about physical immortality
[unlike] others who approach immortality only through
Nightside techniques.

c) Purchasing the cryonics contract is proof that you are
'walking the walk' instead of just talking.

d) Most importantly, by purchasing the cryonics contract you
have demonstrated you are ready for the Higher Teachings.

. . .

"[I]t claims to continue an ancient religion. . .
teach[ing] how to contact the Vampire Gods through a ritual. . .
where the celebrant offers to the Vampire Gods his or her own
life force and the life force he or she has captured from other
weaker human beings. . . The. . . worldview is also apocalyptic,
since 'we are now approaching the Final Harvest', when 'the human stock
shall be drained in a carnage of energy release unlike anything
seen before'. The energy released by killed humans would allow the
Vampire Gods to descend and rule on Earth with their faithful followers,
the initiates. 'The humans shall (...) continue to serve as slave
and food' when 'the Great Undead Gods shall return to their mighty
thrones of Power.'. . . ["Goths"] check out the
Temple of the Vampire. Few stay, fearing that the mail-order scheme may
simply be a money-making business, or disagreeing with the brutal
worldview. . ."
-------

Also bald:
http://thehorrormoviesblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/nosferatu.jpg

Athena Andreadis said...

I had reason to discuss IEET-connected matters recently as well (including the first official use of the term "transhumorism", which I promised to deploy on this very blog). I also have a few theories about human attitudes towards hair... at some point I'll write about it.