Using Technology to Deepen Democracy, Using Democracy to Ensure Technology Benefits Us All

Thursday, July 07, 2011

Libertopianism As An "Autistic" Outlook

Upgraded from an exchange from the Moot:
I wonder if there's a correlation between a high score on the Asperger's test and Libertarian tendencies. Which is to say I wonder if discomfort with social discourse and non-enjoyment of civic life might not predispose one to like a political slant that is, pretty fundamentally, antisocial in its approach. Why not deny the existence and importance of the communal, if the communal makes you uncomfortable?
This aspergers business comes up occasionally but regularly in discussions of market-libertarianism among the frustrated and perplexed, I have noticed. There is even a group of otherwise rather sensible economists who refuse the reductive acquisitive-selfish-maximizing assumptions of their discipline and who, very unfortunately in my view, describe their efforts at a more real world political economy as a post-autistic economics for example.

I for one am always struck by how loose and insinuating the talk really gets when the "connection" itself is being elaborated. Also, those who make the connection tend to smuggle all sorts of generalizations about how neuro-atypical folks (all?) really feel or what they (all?) believe or how they (all?) act, that don't really stand up to actual scrutiny, and that just seem like the usual prejudice and stereotyping (notice all the "theys"?) when all is said and done.

It seems to me that market-libertarian/neoliberal assumptions are enormously simplifying ones. Ayn Rand once claimed that there are no rational conflicts of interest among people, possibly the most flabbergasting bit of denial outside of her belief that "A is A" is a useful insight or that smoking cigarettes has nothing to do with lung cancer so smoke away to spite the moochers! Such simplicity, though mostly falsifying when we are addressing political questions, is intensely compelling to many folks, especially but not only folks who aren't the brightest bulbs in the world, and especially the ones who like to win polemical arguments rather than make nuanced policies in fraught finite diverse-stakeholder contexts. Also, I daresay that these facile formulations can be very reassuring and even rationalizing, especially to the beneficiaries of exploitation and incumbency who, after all, are usually casting about for such rationalizations.

At the risk of offering up my own loose anecdotal overgeneralizing prejudicial sort of talk, I will also say that I discern in many libertarians I have sparred with both online and face to face a quality of belligerent overcompensation: a reliance on lots of assertive reductions and stipulations to compensate for empirical deficiency or lack of nuance or lack of a leg to stand on argumentatively; -- lots of aggressive circumvention of questions about anti-social consequences that always hover around the edges; -- lots of fanciful bluster about their own ruggedness and productivity and autonomy, not to mention defensiveness about their own disproportionate benefit from the ideology they promote at the expense of others, and no small amount of boys with their toys locker room swinging dick nonsense, not to put too fine a point on it. I also do suspect many libertarians are just rather ignorant and incurious, like their conservative twins (whether identical or fraternal) and in consequence rather dumb, and voluntarily so, even if they remain a bit insecure and prickly about it.

You know, we Americans are profoundly pampered by our geopolitical situation and wealth of natural resources and lucky position in history and even now remain comparatively insulated from the real consequences of our often unbelievably bad, wasteful, exploitative, imperialist conduct, even if we are dimly aware of those consequences to others. I don't think it is really that hard to fathom how such people would tend in the main to hold lazy, selfish, irresponsible, simple-minded, self-congratulatory political and economic views.

My own expectation is that it will be an emerging awareness of planetary problems and an intensifying immersion in planetary networks that will circumvent these structural inducements to libertopian rationalizations. I worry only about the pace at which this is happening in light of the urgent catastrophic literally genocidal/suicidal problems our aggressive stupidity enables.

13 comments:

Chad Lott said...

Interesting.

My perception of autism was initially shaped by the film Rain Man. I had never even heard of it before that flick, but what it seemed to suggest was that there was an even trade: elimination of social skills and ability to interact with people decreases, but mastery of math (and I guess by extension, science) increases.

Who needs people when your cold, superhuman math skills make you money, right?

You also get a Wall Street Grifter type (Tom Cruise's character) exploiting the person who has made this exchange.

I could be totally off here, but I'd be willing to bet a lot of this autism/libertarian stuff can be traced back to this movie.

Hopefully Tom Cruise will save us by making a movie about learning to love a permaculture activist.

jimf said...

...Tyler... does not [say] that this shortage of autistic-style thinking is what has gone wrong in... Western Europe.

But he doesn’t take long to imply it:

"A list of the most successful societies in the world usually would include the United Kingdom, the Nordic countries, Japan, the United States, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand."

It’s not surprising to find most of the countries of Western Europe missing from this list, even though they are undeniably among “the most successful societies in the world.” (I mean really: Germany?)

...

It is revealing that in a book centered around autistic characteristics, “empathy” does not appear in the index...

So what does this all have to do with “lesser empathy” and markets? Haidt speculates that they are related in the way that Will implies:

"The lower levels of compassion, and higher levels of need for cognition and tendency to 'systemize' rather than empathize, are probably related to the love of markets."

...The abstract concept of markets holds more attraction for the autistic cognitive style than does empathy...

Does this fondness for abstractions explain Libertarians’ enthusiasm for a form of government based on abstract beliefs that is unexampled among large, thriving, prosperous countries on this planet — an enthusiasm that continues even though no country operating on Libertarian principles has emerged, much less surged ahead of the others?

Does it — combined with the lesser levels of empathy that Haidt demonstrates — explain the movement’s aversion to redistribution, even though every large, thriving, prosperous country engages in massive doses of redistribution? (There are no exceptions.)

Does it explain the continued predictions of disaster for those countries that the more extreme Libertarians have been warning us of for so long — even though those sky-is-falling scenarios have not occurred? (Over the long run — as libertarians will happily point out when it serves their rhetorical turns — things keep getting better.)

Does it, in short, explain an ideology that can only be described as utopian (lacking in any real-world exemplars), but that continues even though its leading proponents are painfully aware of the long, sad history of such utopian belief systems?

Do the lesser quantities of empathy that characterize the autistic and libertarian cognitive and moral styles (almost complete absence, in extreme case) result in an almost autistic mind-blindness to the reality of successful societies and economies: that all those societies and economies employ policies rooted in empathy, policies that history has demonstrated to be the most economically efficient?

Demonstrably, because those are the societies that have thrived and prospered.

...[S]ince empathy is clearly at the heart of humans’ ability to cooperate, and since humans’ ability to cooperate is what has put us at the top of the food chain... would it be surprising if policies that systematize and efficiently channel that empathy were also successful?

jimf said...

> I could be totally off here, but I'd be willing
> to bet a lot of this autism/libertarian stuff can
> be traced back to this movie.

I think you're totally off here.

;->

myst101 said...

True, people in the autistic spectrum *may* have impaired empathy. But lack of empathy is more of a problem when it's paired with ARROGANCE. In general, libertarians and conservatives have both.

Lorraine said...

It's a nasty stereotype, nothing more.

http://n8chz.blogspot.com/2007/09/hooray-for-so-called-post-autistic.html

jimf said...

I notice that the long comment of mine that appears above is actually the second chunk of a two-part submission, the first part of which never showed up (making the second chunk look a bit incoherent).

Also, a more detailed follow up comment to Chad Lott's remark about "Rain Man" never made it through.

In addition, the first of two comments I made to "Trying To Talk Politics With Pre-Political Libertarians" never showed up (again, making the second comment seem rather abrupt and out-of-context).

Assuming these weren't actively moderated off (and if this explanation actually makes it through), I'll resubmit the items I have copies of (and reconstruct the ones I don't, if I feel motivated when the time comes) when I get access to the saved text files, in a few hours.

Not that I think any remarks I make here are such precious gems of insight, you know, but it is a bit annoying to end up appearing actually **incoherent**. ;->

Dale Carrico said...

The Moot does go haywire sometimes, but now you've got me wondering if other comments are being randomly sublimed and folks simply aren't persisting, fancying themselves to have been snipped by the censor...

jimf said...

> . . . the movie Rain Man. . .

To provide a little more detail here:

I've never seen Rain Man, though I've certainly heard of Kim Peek (and Daniel Tammet).

Temple Grandin has been much in the public eye since Oliver Sacks first wrote about her -- she's published her own fine books, which I've read, and there's even been a movie about her (starring Claire Danes). And there are plenty of clips of the real Temple Grandin on YouTube.

There's been a huge increase in public awareness in autism and autistic-spectrum phenomena since the turn of the century, particularly since popular reports of an "epidemic" of autism-spectrum diagnoses among children in high-tech population centers such as Silicon Valley.

See "The Geek Syndrome",
by Steve Silberman
_Wired_ 9.12 Dec. 2001,
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aspergers_pr.html ;

"The High-Flying Obsessives"
by Karen Gold
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4103969,00.html ;

also Sarah Hartwell's article "IT'S ALL GEEK TO ME! WHAT IS A NERD?"
http://web.archive.org/web/20061010114907/http://www.shartwell.freeserve.co.uk/humor-site/nerd-geek.htm
(despite the string "humor-site" in this URL, this is a serious and elaborate article, with some intense and moving case histories);

and _The Essential Difference: Male and Female Brains and the Truth About Autism_
by Simon Baron-Cohen
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/046500556X

You'll also find a vast number of books on Asperger's Syndrome in your local Barnes & Noble, by Tony Atwell and many other authors.

There's also now a vast literature on the Web on these topics.

So no, I don't think we need attribute anybody's interest in, or limit anybody's knowledge of, autism and related subjects to the inaccurate contents of an old Tom Cruise movie.

jimf said...

Lorraine said

> It's a nasty stereotype, nothing more.
> http://n8chz.blogspot.com/2007/09/hooray-for-so-called-post-autistic.html

The linked post contains:

-------------
18 September 2007
Hooray for so-called post-autistic economics

I must start by indicating my objection to the moniker. It plays into the stereotype of autistic people as lacking in empathy, sense of humor, and interests other than mathematics. . .
-------------

Except that it **isn't** just an ignorant stereotype perpetuated by uninformed people. Unless you think, for example, that Simon Baron-Cohen is uninformed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Baron-Cohen

And it isn't "nasty" because it isn't, as far as I can discern, motivated by any particular animus towards such people. If anything, a diagnosis of Asperger's is a relief for many people (and their families and employers), because it gives a framework and a justification for what might otherwise have always been viewed as "deliberately difficult" behavior.

But as far as the association between Aspergers and politics is concerned, here's a strong opinion (by a self-proclaimed non-neurotypical) that I just came across:

http://www.psychforums.com/asperger-syndrome/topic51525.html
-------------
Left-wing Aspergers = Faux Aspergers
by LibertarianAS
Tue Jul 13, 2010

There are a lot of faux Aspergers around those days

I hate being accused to be faking and lying my disorder during internet conversation only because the world is so full of idiots who claim to have it as excuse to not work/being an asshole

but I f***ing hate those who claim to be both AS and a liberal(US hjacked sense)/socialist/communists/progressive/social democrats and all other crap(Today I discussed with a self-declared left-wing libertarian..LOL what a f***ing Oxymoron)

YOU CAN'T BE BOTH AN ASPERGER AND A LEFT-WINGER TYPE BECAUSE LIBERTARIANISM IS BASED AROUND LOGIC WHILE LEFTISM IS ROOTED IN EMOTION

We asperger are Ultra-logic types so the only one thing that make sense is to be and acts as Libertarian

If someone claims to be on the ASD and voted Obama or believe in Human made Global Warming and all other sh** ...HE is not an Asperger but a neurotypical loser
-------------

So there you have it! :-0

jimf said...

This was the first part of the comment whose second part, above, begins "...Tyler... does not [say]. . .".
Google has disappeared this twice; maybe it'll get through this time (FWIW!).

> I for one am always struck by how loose and insinuating
> the talk really gets when the "connection" itself is
> being elaborated. . .

Perhaps. Here's a more recent example:

http://www.asymptosis.com/libertarians-republicans-and-democrats-new-findings-on-morality-empathy-and-sympathy.html
(the author and blog owner seems to be one Steve Roth, who is apparently an economist).
----------------
"Libertarians, Republicans, and Democrats: New Findings on Morality, Empathy, and Sympathy"

To recap a previous post on research by Jonathan Haidt, as recounted in an article by Steven Pinker:

Republicans care equally about five spheres of morality: avoiding harm, fairness, group loyalty, respect for authority, and purity.

Democrats mostly care about only two: avoiding harm and fairness.

(...[T]he Democrats’ two favorites basically characterize the gold standard of morality: The Golden Rule. Three of the Republicans’ favored tenets have nothing to do with — are often or mostly antithetical to — that rule.)

...Libertarians... care less about all five. ...

Will [Wilkinson, a political blogger] characterizes
( http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2010/03/11/libertarian-moral-psychology/ )
these findings by saying “libertarians are liberals who like markets.” I took him to task for his best-possible-light characterization, saying “A libertarian is a liberal without compassion or empathy.” Will quite rightly slapped me down: “I think [Haidt] would insist that ‘less’ means something very different from ‘without.’”...

But the “lesser” fact remains–supported in spades by Haidt’s latest work...:

"Libertarians look much more like liberals than like conservatives on most measures, EXCEPT those that have anything to do with compassion, on which libertarians are lower than liberals AND conservatives."

...A commenter suggests that “libertarianism essentially amounts to is the political expression of autism.” Viewed with best-light beneficience, this is presumably not a pejorative statement but an insight into the autistic cognitive style and its emphasis on rationalism over empathy.

Will responds by suggesting “you should check out Tyler Cowen’s chapter on ‘autistic politics’ in his book _Create Your Own Economy_.”

...

That book... is something of a paean to the autistic cognitive style, and that chapter suggests that the world would be a better place -- there would be less wars, in particular -- if we had more people thinking in that style.

...[I]t might serve to [quote] some of what Tyler says...

"There is good evidence that people along the autism spectrum are in some measurable ways more objective than non-autistics."

...

"Autistics are attracted to simple and straightforward codes of ethics, applied universally to all human beings."

...

"Hayek argued that a rich and largely unplanned order can blossom when society is governed by a relatively small set of abstract rules, and, ideally, a constitution; you don’t have to share Hayek’s libertarian and conservative version of this blend to find this an appealing vision."

I would suggest that you do... if you want to carry this maxim to an extreme logical conclusion.

"Different kinds of human minds often have difficulty appreciating each other’s virtues, so social arrangements, and personal individual judgments, should be robust to this fact. That is still an argument for social and economic decentralization."

...

"What has gone wrong in many of the non-free societiies in today’s world is a lack of adherence to abstract rules of behavior and a lack of understanding of such rules as beneficial abstract mechanisms."

Anne Corwin said...

Oh good grief, not this business again.

Thank you, as usual, Dale, for not jumping on the "OMG AUTISM IS A METAPHOR FOR EVERYTHING!!!1" bandwagon that seems to be running rampant these days.

IMO it makes no. sense. at. all. to try and equate a political/economic outlook with a particular neurological configuration. Autism insofar as (what I see as being) the best current science encompasses a subset of the population as diverse as any other subset.

Also, the "empathy" thing, I wrote at length about that here. Ages ago. For any that are interested.

jimf said...

> . . .Tyler Cowen’s chapter on ‘autistic politics’ in
> his book _Create Your Own Economy_. . .

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/12/AR2010051202637.html
--------------------
Tyler Cowen's appetite for ethnic food -- and answers about his life
By Michael S. Rosenwald
May 13, 2010

Tyler Cowen -- economist of daily life, reader of five books a day, polymath blogger, food explorer -- was zipping through his inbox one day when an e-mail confused him.

Cowen recognized the sender's name: Kathleen Fasanella, a devoted reader of Cowen's blog, Marginal Revolution. . . Fasanella had one quick question for the blogger: Did you ever consider whether you might be autistic?

Fasanella, a clothing patternmaker who once took a two-week vacation to read at the Library of Congress and is herself autistic, was responding to a Cowen post that mentioned autism. She thought, "Geez, Tyler, um, have you ever looked in a mirror?"

Cowen, an economics professor at George Mason University, can rattle off an astonishing amount of information on nearly any topic. He holds in his mind deep reservoirs of arcane details. . . on economics, literature, classical music, cuisine. He maintains long lists. He has specific rules and rituals -- for everything.

"He had to be autistic," Fasanella said. "It made total sense."

It did not make total sense to Cowen. Looking back at the moment, Cowen writes that he was an "upper-middle-class white male who all his life felt like he belonged to the dominant group in American society. Suddenly I was faced with the suggestion that I could be part of a minority, and a very beleaguered minority at that."

He was insulted. No, not autistic, he told Fasanella. . .

Cowen is 48. He grew up in Hillsdale, N.J., an hour's drive from New York. . . Holly Cowen recalls her brother acquiring vast quantities of information before he was 4. . .

At 13, he began reading economics and philosophy books. "Both subjects at least pretended to be a way of making sense of the world," he says. He began to fashion his tenets about the world.

He is a libertarian and a fan of globalization. . .

He has systematic solutions for suburban problems. . .

Cowen explained in his recent book, "Creating Your Own Economy," that his view has changed since Fasanella first asked him whether he might be autistic. "I have since become comfortable with my affiliation with autism, and indeed proud of it, but it's not a thought I was ready for at the time," Cowen wrote.

In the few years since he got Fasanella's e-mail, Cowen said, the world has transformed into an infinite ocean of information, overwhelming most of us -- but not autistics. "One strong feature of autism is the tendency of autistics to impose additional structure on information by the acts of arranging, organizing, classifying, collecting, memorizing, categorizing, and listing," he wrote. "Autistics are the true infovores, as I will call them."

Cowen may be not autistic but rather a new type of human who organizes today's avalanche of information into rules about how the world should work. The more information the infovore consumes, the more order he brings to his world.
--------------------

jimf said...

> Cowen may be not autistic but rather a new type of human. . .

A hypothetical swing of the pendulum.

Trucks
By Amy Bechtel
Reprinted from Analog Magazine, March 2007
http://u225.torque.net/Trucks.html

(The friend who forwarded me the link said
"John W. Campbell must be turning in his grave"
;-> ).